When I sign up for helping a project, especially as champion, this is a very reasonable request.
On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com> wrote: > Back in 2013, I suggested asking the Champion to accept a very clear > level of reporting responsibility: to write a sentence or two _every > month_ or find someone else to do it. That's one person whom I wanted > to ask to sign up, for the duration of an incubation, to pay enough > attention to be able to report a basic heartbeat. > > ? > > > On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Upayavira <u...@odoko.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 5, 2015, at 08:18 PM, jan i wrote: > >> On 5 January 2015 at 20:06, Alan D. Cabrera <l...@toolazydogs.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > On Jan 5, 2015, at 10:26 AM, jan i <j...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > > On Monday, January 5, 2015, Alan D. Cabrera <l...@toolazydogs.com > >> > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','l...@toolazydogs.com');>> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jan 5, 2015, at 9:21 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org > > > >> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> The tracking part is easy, though. What's difficult is the part > >> > >>> that would require us to do something with poddlings put > >> > >>> on hold. Unless we come up with clear exit criteria for > >> > >>> this new state -- I don't think we're solving any real problems > >> > >>> here. > >> > >> > >> > >> There’s no silver bullet here, if a podling cannot whip up a > mentor it’s > >> > >> because: > >> > >> the podling is not popular and should probably be retired anyway, > being > >> > >> put on hold will provide impetus for the podling to seek out a new > venue > >> > >> there are not enough mentors > >> > >> There is no way to magically solve the latter. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > You mean popular within the pool of mentors (IPMC), the project can > still > >> > > be popular on several other scales. > >> > > >> > I’m not speaking of popularity of mentors; I regret that choice of > words. > >> > I am stating that active and healthy podlings seem to have no trouble > >> > attracting active mentors. > >> > > >> > The converse seems to be true. Unhealthy podlings seem to attract > mentors > >> > who have signed up out of pity and subsequently go MIA. > >> > > >> I agree with the last part, I still have to see mentors volunteer for > >> small > >> active and healthy projects which might not be main road. Of course it > >> depends on how active and healthy is defined, but as an example my > little > >> project Corinthia barely managed to get 2 mentors, while in the same > time > >> span we got 3 committers. > >> > >> > > >> > Before anyone replies, I understand this is not a hard and fast rule > but > >> > an imperfect qualitative observation on my part. > >> > > >> > Anyway, active and responsible mentors will eventually get to all > podlings. > >> > > >> > > I might lack experience, but why do more active mentors guarantee > that > >> > the > >> > > podling will be a better TLP ? > >> > > >> > I’m not sure who’s making that assertion. > >> > > >> Well its because I cannot see why a podling need more than 1 active > >> mentor > >> at all times....having multiple is fine, to cover each other, but it > >> should > >> not take more than 1 mentor to learn a podling, what it needs to > >> understand. The suggestion implicit says 2 mentors is the minimum needed > >> for at podling to become a successful TLP. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > We try to solve the problem of mentors not being active but adding > more > >> > > volume. I don't believe that is the right cure. > >> > > >> > We’re not adding volume. The volume is already there. We’re just > making > >> > the state of affairs more explicit and transparent and adding > culpability > >> > for MIA mentors. > >> > > >> Do we have a rule today that a podling needs at least 2 active mentors > >> (if > >> we have that, then we would not have a problem with sign offs, or a lot > >> of > >> dead podlings), at least I have not seen it....that is what I mean by > >> adding volume. > >> > >> If just 1 mentor is active and sign off the reports, then I do not see > >> the > >> problem. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > I do agree with bernard that it is the podling that should ask for > >> > > help....but the IPMC should solve it., > >> > > >> > Yes, it should help solve problems but if there are no mentors > available > >> > there are no mentors available. > >> > > >> Then the IPMC should not have accepted the podling in the first place! > >> > >> It is simply not fair to make the life of a podling, depending on > whether > >> or not we have mentors available (REMARK after accepting the proposal) ! > >> If > >> the podling have a healthy community and are active, we cannot and > should > >> not close it down, just because we have a mentor problem. > >> > >> To me telling a podling it cannot grow its community nor make releases, > >> is > >> the same as closing it down. > > > > Jan, > > > > From an idealistic perspective, you are completely right. Apache should, > > once a project has been accepted, provide the support needed. > > > > The reality is that, given the ASF's volunteer nature, that simply won't > > always work. > > > > I'd much rather we be clear with projects right up front, saying > > something like: > > > > "To join the Incubator, you need one or more mentors. To get to > > graduation, you will need the support of those mentors. If mentors > > become unavailable, you will need to seek replacements. Unless you have > > already learned the ways of the ASF and are ready to graduate, you will > > need to keep engaged with your mentors. If possible, engage in the wider > > ASF, and develop connections with others who might be in a position to > > assist with mentorship should one or all of your current mentors become > > unable to fulfill the role. " > > > > This is, actually, what happens, and I'd much rather we just said it > > like that :-) > > > > Upayavira > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
