----- Original Message ----
> From: Ross Gardler <rgard...@apache.org>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 8:45:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Radical revamp
>
> On 17/08/2010 13:21, Joe Schaefer wrote:
[...]
> > Isn't that why we encourage IPMC members to participate in
> > discussions about our podlings? How do we expect people
> > to learn without dialog and discussion- by reading our constantly-
> > in-need-of-attention docs?
>
> We should be trusting our mentors to know when to ask for help
> and when to trust their instincts. We should be helping our mentors
> understand the boundaries of their expertise. We should be helping
> mentors understand what mentorship is - it should not be a box ticking
> exercise.
I would be far more convinced that we should be "trusting our mentors"
if mentors actually participated in writing incubator documentation,
or engaged constructively in threads like this. The fact is there
are no group controls over what a mentor says or does, it's purely
a voluntary exercise, by people with limited to no training, with no
direct benefit nor responsiblity related to it.
[...]
> In this very thread a self confessed newcomer said that their
> experience of the incubator was just fine. Then they went on
> to say that the Apache Way is not about modifying processes
> to best fit your individual needs.
>
> This, to me, is incorrect.
Perhaps.
> The Apache Way works precisely because we allow projects to
> change (most) processes to suit their individual communities.
> Whilst there are a few invariant processes to ensure IP is
> managed properly and communities are meritocratic pretty much
> everything can be modified on a per proejct/per community basis.
>
> That is the vast majority of processes in the ASF are "best practice"
> not check lists to be ticked off.
>
> IPMC members should indeed participate in discussions about
> "what is the best way to solve problem x within this community",
> that is how we learn about best practice. We should *not* be
> writing more rules to constrain projects in ways that is not
> necessary for the Apache Way and is not necessary for the
> legal oversight of the foundation.
What I've been trying to explain here with my "experiment" is that
the best way to teach people about the Apache Way is to let them
experience it for themselves. We don't actually do that here,
and I'm trying to push a view that allows us to actually try it
a little and see what happens.
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