On 18/08/2010 14:25, Carl Trieloff wrote:
On 08/17/2010 07:48 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
On 17/08/2010 17:35, Carl Trieloff wrote:
To this question, (what will make this model succeed or fail) I find
myself not coming
to defensible answers... I would love to see thoughts of others on this
question.
The thread implies it comes down to the 3+ members on the project.
It's not that simple for me.
A single member who either knows all they need to know or (more
likely) knows when they need to ask for guidance from their peers is
all that is needed if (and only if) the IPMC trusts that member to do
the right thing.
However, there are a number of reasons why a single mentor does not
work out including some fundamental requirements for binding votes on
certain activities.
For me success or failure comes down to the quality of the mentoring
and the willingness of the project committers to learn how to apply
the Apache Way to their community.
Ross, I buy that, however what guidelines would IPMC use to allow a
podling to use this model? Does this mean we have 'lesser' and 'greater'
members or mentors?
It is nothing to do with "greater" or "lesser". It's to do with
respecting different people with different approaches.
> Or is it a podling asking to use the model and then the IPMC deciding
> based on knowing who is on the podling PPMC to allow it, or if it is
> open to any podling, how do we as the IPMC understand that the
> project is ready to graduate?
Different mentors are better at helping different types of podlings.
Some people are detail heavy (good for those with little understanding
of the Apache Way), others are a bit slapdash* (good for those already
most of the way there).
I think Greg suggested that it should be the board who decide if a
project should go straight to TLP with mentor oversight (the radical
revamp proposal). I'd hope the opinion of the IPMC would have the
opportunity to influence this decision.
As I said elsewhere I'd love for the IPMC to focus more on training and
supporting mentors than on ticking boxes for podlings. Knowing which
mentors are the appropriate type is as important as knowing which
projects are the appropriate type for this model.
As for how do we know when it is ready to graduate, this is still
something that has not been addressed, and I don't feel able to address
it now. I suspect it can't be addressed until we have tried it a couple
of times.
My gut response is that if a project is trusted to go straight to TLP
with mentors then we should also trust the mentors and project
committers to know when it is time to graduate (there are a few
requirements that should be present e.g. an audited release put out
there using the correct infra@ processes).
Ross
* so as noone takes offense let me say I'm thinking of my own approach
when I say "slapdash" ;-)
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