+1 to Scott's comments. I don't think the name is a significant conflict at all. Debian Etch is a release codename - regular references to it will fade away as the next release surfaces, and the Apache Etch name, if it is a successful project, should last much longer. This would supplant recognition over time, so it is not a big deal to keep the Etch name IMO.
Majorly silent, Les On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Craig L Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > +1 Well said. > > Part of the silent majority, > > Craig > > > On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:29 AM, scott comer wrote: > > as a scientist, i am getting somewhat bristly at all the rumor, innuendo, >> and hyperbole around names. i've not seen any definitive or measurable steps >> that can be take to ensure success. we're also ignoring the silent majority >> which seems to like etch just fine. my personal opinion is that the name is >> not the gating factor for success. apache pig? really. success and web hits >> will derive from being truly useful and trusted. it doesn't work the other >> way around. >> >> simply dictionary word names and result counts on google certainly don't >> count. several apache projects are named with dictionary words with >> significantly larger search result counts than etch. >> >> to state the obvious, what counts is that people can find you. i've seen >> studies and information on how to try to game google's system. many of them >> contradict each other, but everyone can agree that you better be on the >> first page and with something clearly definitive near the top of the first >> screen. from their info, two things matter: >> >> 1) links from various "definitive" sources to the etch page. this can come >> from links from reviews, cisco.com, java.sun.com, apache home page, >> microsoft csharp page, python, ruby, wikipedia, about.com, etc. these >> things are not present now, but will be shortly if we could get past this. >> >> 2) names must be memorable enough so that a casual reference in a >> conversation can be turned into a successful search later. examples of this >> might be "etch", "etch protocol", "etch java", etc. if you search for "etch >> service description language" or "etch protocol" right now you get to the >> right place. nothing is more off-putting than a name which you cannot spell >> having only heard it. word combinations are also out for the same reason, >> because people enter them as two separate words. finally, if your name is >> intentionally misspelled, watch out. google will suggest a better spelling >> and people often automatically take its advice. >> >> the important thing right now is, i think, that searching now for etch >> doesn't not reveal anything which is obviously competing technology (east >> tennessee children's hospital is #1, debian #2, etch a sketch #3). nothing >> obviously confusing comes up. therefore, plenty of room for etch to elbow >> its way to the #1 spot, esp when combined with other keywords. >> >> when choosing the name etch, we thought it important to choose a short >> word which wasn't already a tech name. it needed to connote writing and >> communication. it need to be easy to remember, etc. >> >> i really like the name etch, obviously, it is short and memorable and >> mnemonic, i haven't seen anything which would indicate that a successful and >> useful technology would not be adopted just because of its name. changing >> the name now seems fussy and would muddy water enough to confuse the small >> toe hold we already have (cio.com article, cisco video presentations, >> existing cisco customers, etc.). it isn't worth it right now without >> definitive proof that the new name is better. >> >> let's hear from the silent majority! >> >> scott out >> >> Grant Ingersoll wrote: >> >>> On Aug 8, 2008, at 4:28 AM, James Dixson (jadixson) wrote: >>> >>> Simple put: a name change is work. Before I can accept the need to do >>>> work, I want to clearly understand the benefits of doing it. >>>> >>>> Etch, while new to open-source, does have some awareness in a technical >>>> community ( http://developer.cisco.com/web/cuae ). We have been >>>> publicly >>>> pitching and distributing etch in our community for several months now. >>>> People have been using the technology and for our current community Etch >>>> != Debian. Granted, a couple of months is a short amount of time, but it >>>> is something. Imposing a name change on our current community, with the >>>> reasoning that the future community, would be unable to differentiate >>>> between "Apache Etch" and the etch release Debian, would be disruptive. >>>> >>> >>> I don't think the argument is necessarily that the future community can't >>> distinguish between Apache Etch and Debian, I think the argument is that the >>> future community won't be able to find it, period, which means the future >>> community may well be smaller than it would be w/ a more distinctive name. >>> >>> Put it this way, you search for Hadoop, the top 10 on Google is all >>> Apache Hadoop. You search for Etch and you will be lucky to crack the top >>> 10, me thinks, but who knows maybe you'll get enough rank to displace the >>> Etch-a-Sketch and it will be a non-issue. >>> >>> Of course, the work thing I understand, too, although it seems like a >>> global search and replace wouldn't be that bad. You also certainly could >>> change it over time, even after being accepted into incubation, I think, >>> just as long as it's done before first release. >>> >>> FWIW, I like the name Etch :-) >>> >>> -Grant >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > Craig L Russell > Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo > 408 276-5638 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! > >
