Oh, what a trip this has been.
I like consensus. I don't like out-of-the-blue discussion-less votes on
big issues (and Incubator graduation is a big issue). I prefer to have
a vote as an unambiguous ratification of what was agreed upon beforehand.
In retrospect, it might have been procedurally more efficient, but I
still think that having this discussion was important. I certainly plan
to revisit some of these topics in Incubator when the smoke has cleared
around Harmony, whenever that is.
I agree with the motivations behind asking for a release, but disagree
that a release is the only way to satisfy IPMC's need for information
about the health and capability of a podling's future life as a TLP.
We've had 4 reports from the 4 mentors of the project, 3 (Stefano, Leo
and Dims) that I would argue are "arms-length" mentors who are not as
closely "invested" in the project as I am, and are well-known for their
directness, honesty and openness.
I'd like to ask that those who have asked for a release to assuage
concerns about community health and capability to please read those 3
testaments from the mentors (ok, in Leo's case, 71 or so...) and please
consider withdrawing your request for a release.
If we can reach consensus (with the exception of Mads who doesn't want
to see Harmony here, and Roy for other good reasons due to my
stupidity), I'd like to then move to the ratification vote.
geir
Leo Simons wrote:
Last e-mail on this for the day, promised! :-)
Greg -- having many e-mails as threaded responses rather than a single
one is useful if you have nested threading and you're only interested in
part of a sub-sub-thread. Maybe gmail needs fixing :-P. In any case,
here's your overview.
On Oct 17, 2006, at 6:44 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
I believe the active mentors (myself, Stefano, Leo and Dims) will assert
that the [harmony] community is healthy and very active.
Yup.
We'd like to help make this as efficient a process as possible - please
let us know if there are any issues that will prevent a successful vote
by the PMC on our graduation. If there are no un-addressed issues in
the next 3 days, I'd like to call a vote late on Thursday, October 19th,
so we can possibly be finished in time for the next Board meeting,
October 25th.
Issues I saw raised:
== should have all legal ducks in a row ==
Check. Double check. Triple check. Pass. Best student in class.
== should not have a language implementation at apache at all since
that's too big a project to fit with the rest of the ASF ==
With a harmony/incubator hat on, I disagree with that (since the stated
goal of harmony is to be a language implementation!), and in any case I
think it shouldn't be a factor in deciding on graduation.
With an ASF member hat on, I do continue to be concerned about the ASF
its ever-increasing size, but that's not something that harmony itself
can really address or is responsible for.
== should have done a release ==
I disagree with this. The release requirement is a (undocumented as
required!) way to gauge that a project's developer community can jump
through various hoops and be responsible about managing "big issue"
things. This community has shown so already.
I think the fact that harmony has not done a "full release cycle" is
actually a healthy thing for the project. The slowdown inherent to that
kind of cycle for harmony will come because of needing to do TCK
testing, and that very TCK testing will put more requirements on the
project anyway than a normal ASF-style release process.
I think the kind of release process that harmony needs to have is very
different from most existing ASF projects (for one, it needs a little
server cluster to run tests on) and that any comparisons are therefore
not very useful.
== So, where are we? ==
I don't think the "should have done a release" issue has been
"addressed" (since harmony hasn't done one with all the bells and
whistles, just snapshots). *I* don't think it needs to be addressed
before graduating out of the incubator, in the case of harmony. It's not
completely clear what "the incubator PMC" thinks about that topic (if
anything, this shows how hard it is for the IPMC to make up its
mind...we really do seem to have a pendulum opinion when it comes to
this stuff). Me being me, I would just call a vote and find out.
LSD
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