I was addressing Snyder's recommendation rather than the development of Elon's personality. Assuming the personality Elon presents is really his. I suspect it is, which would be kind of a disappointment.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 11:25 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] why musk bought twitter IDK. That sounds like you projecting onto Elno, rather than an explanation that relies on Elno's [hi]story. His narrative arc is (as Harris laid out in his video) is "the potential of humankind". And that doesn't seem nihilist to me. Maybe he's become one, of course. As Harris states in the video, when he became the richest man, a qualitative shift may have taken place. Harris argues the shift was he bought Twitter because he *need* conflict and obstacles to overcome. Maybe you could argue the qualitative change was that he became a nihilist when his hoard met that criterion. But because he continues to be an "AI Doomer" (at least in rhetoric and an accelerationist in action), there's some sort of Rawlsian curtain, like the singularity ... something on the other side of the transition - and an attempt to bury one's hoard so that it's available on the other side. And I think that eschatological conception fits better with his narrative arc than a nihilistic one. On 8/2/24 11:11, Marcus Daniels wrote: > My standard answer to this is -- given the neural reference frame of nihilism > -- is why not try some grand social experiments. There is no Purpose, so > causing harm in the short term, or for that matter long term, ultimately > doesn't matter. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen > Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 8:12 AM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: [FRIAM] why musk bought twitter > > This guy does what I think is a good job demonstrating that Elno's stated > reasons (free speech, liberal bias, censorship) for buying Twitter were false: > > The Problem With Elon Musk > https://youtu.be/WYQxG4KEzvo?si=oXumcC8aqsYMTzdC&t=1487 > > Sure, we can project whatever fantasies we want into the mind of an oligarch > like Elno. But if we're trying to do a good job, find an explanation that's > "hard to vary" (ala Deutsch), we're left empty handed. However Timothy Snyder > provides us with something I think's intriguing; and it reflects various > other arguments I've made, here, about TESCREAL > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TESCREAL>. > > Here's where I heard Snyder's setup: > > The New Paganism: How the Postmodern Became the Premodern > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nr2Q2zGNC8 > > Appended below is Claude's summary of the talk. But the essence is that these > people "believe" (somehow) they can "take it with them" in a similar way to > the pagans (e.g. Vikings, Egyptians, etc.) believing they could hoard their > stuff and somehow have access to it in the next life. This reflects well, I > think, Musk's objectives for SpaceX, Tesla, breeding children, etc. It's > somewhere between believing in souls, one's legacy, and spreading humanity > (not biology, of course, but humanity) throughout the universe. > > My guess is most of our Oligarchs will give lip service to spiritual beliefs > like Christianity or whatever, but are actually more atheistic in their > ephemerides. But if you spend enough time arguing about atheism, you > consistently find people (even atheistic people) asking for Purpose (with a > capital P). Why are we here? What should we be doing? Etc. Despite our > overwhelming rationalism/justificationism, many (most?) of us still seek that > grand arch. And those of us who are *lucky* enough to be extraordinarily > successful (in whatever domain) are at the most risk for this > irrational/fideistic, paganist, TESCREAL Purpose. I think it's a relatively > strong hypothesis for why Musk bought Twitter. > > Claude's summary: >> - Snyder argues that conventional explanations based on rationality and >> interests fail to adequately explain the rise of right-wing populist >> movements and figures like Trump, Putin, and Musk. Instead, he proposes >> analyzing these phenomena through the lens of what he calls "neopaganism." >> >> - He identifies four key dimensions of neopaganism: value, sacrifice, >> charisma, and oracular truth. >> >> - On value, he argues today's oligarchs hoard wealth as if they can "take it >> with them" after death, similar to pagan burial practices. >> >> - On sacrifice, he contends oligarchs are sacrificing the earth itself >> through climate change, taking the world down with them. Putin's invasion of >> Ukraine also has a sacrificial logic. >> >> - Charismatic leaders tell big lies to create an alternate reality their >> followers live inside. Trump and Putin exemplify this. >> >> - Modern technology, especially smartphones, function as pagan "oracles" - >> sources of addictive but often deceptive truth that make us more stupid over >> time. >> >> - Snyder believes the humanities are crucial for reflecting on these issues >> and finding a way out of our current crisis. A narrow, failed rationality >> has enabled these destructive dynamics. What's needed is a richer, more >> reflective notion of human freedom. >> >> In summary, Snyder argues we need to understand the pagan-like irrationality >> and destructiveness driving our world today in order to have any hope of >> countering it. The humanities provide essential resources for this task. -- ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . 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