NST - DAWW is perhaps it's own version of the nail or stone in a communal "soup". Or a potherb, providing limited but possibly critical nutrition to an otherwise bland and macronutrient-only stew?
- SAS On 10/2/21 10:56 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > > Colleagues, > > > > I am appealing for help with a paradox. On the one hand there is this > well known concept of a category error, an insult that has great force > in some domains of thought; on the other hand, there is probability > theory, calculus, etc., which involves (to my eye) the same > equivocation, but on which we have relied for the great practical > achievements of our time. Is the analogy between the two not apt? If > it is apt, then we have the paradox of vicious and virtuous category > errors. > > > > For those of you who think I am just dicking about with words here, > let me concede that there is such an evil. However, you must > recognize that sometimes great gaps in our thinking are discovered by > people dicking about with words. Since DAWW is all I am really > capable of at my advanced age – indeed, perhaps EVER have been capable > of-- it is what I have to throw in the pot. You might help me > distinguish between vicious DAWW and virtuous DAWW. You might exile > me. But you probably won’t get me to stop. > > > > [sigh] > > > > > > Nick Thompson, Doctor of DAWW. > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly > *Sent:* Saturday, October 2, 2021 12:28 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate > > > > Perhaps. But in the meantime people who believe in and use concepts > like derivatives, integrals, position, velocity, momentum, energy, > etc. send probes to the moons of Jupiter and beyond. But I guess you > dismiss that with the same argument with which you dismiss nuclear > reactor design using probabilities. > > > > Frenemy? You ain't seen nothing unless you've had a teenage daughter > recently. > > > > Frank > > > > > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2021, 10:17 AM <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Dear Frank, > > > > As I say, it boils down to a question of who controls the meaning > of velocity. Now we can, of course, have different realms of > discourse where velocity means one thing to you and another to me, > so long as we are very clear and do not equivocate about which > meaning we are using. The problem is, of course, that in the > discourse I am most familiar with, equivocation goes on all the > time. Now there might be an interesting line of argument where > you assert that “the limit of the ratio of distance to time as > time approaches 0” is exactly what the “common man” means by > velocity. He doesn’t quite have those words for it, but as the > car is hurtling down on him standing in the middle of the road and > he says that car is coming FAST, he is interested in the > instantaneous motion (whatever that could possibly be!) of the > car. I think that is wrong. I think he is interested in whether > the car is going to cover the distance between itself and him > before he covers the distance between him and the edge of the > road, but perhaps there is a sense in which the instantaneous > velocity is used to bridge from his perception of the motion of > the car in the last second to his perception of it’s motion in the > next few. Thus he uses a kind of abduction to reach a category we > call “the velocity of the car” and from that category deduces the > time of arrival of the car at his point in the road. This idea … > that we use experience to make up useful fictions -- aka > “categories, essences, reals, etc.”-- from which we then infer > events is a newish one to me and I want to think about it more. > Somehow, to assert that all categories, all “generals” are > fictions seems right to me right now. If we are to arrive at the > place where all categories are fictions then we must have a way to > distinguish between virtuous and vicious fictions. And not just > the Jamesian way. > > > > But, Frenemy Frank, you must recognize the absurdity you have let > yourself in for when you write dualist non-sense such as “This is > theoretical and approximates what happens in the physical world.” > > > > There is no moment when we know the world. To use your language, > all we know is our theories of the world. The world divides out > of the equation. We are in the businesses of prediction future > experience from past experience and the world plays no part in > that business */except as theory/*. > > > > N > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly > *Sent:* Saturday, October 2, 2021 10:37 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate > > > > Velocity is the derivative of location with respect to time. In > three-space it's a three component vector as is location. > > > > In freshman physics at Carnegie Tech we studied these concepts > with strobe lights, cameras, and frictionless (almost) pucks. > > > > Frank > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2021, 8:29 AM <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Frank, > > > > Well, as usual, it’s a question of who get’s the words. In > the world in which I was raised a velocity is a change in > position over a change in time. No change in distance, no > velocity. Velocity at an instant is a mathematical fabulation > in the same way that wanting at an instant is a fabulation. > My problem as a “thinker” is that I want to dismiss the > latter, but I cannot dismiss the former. > > N > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly > *Sent:* Friday, October 1, 2021 10:01 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate > > > > Nick, i hope this helps. Given a fair die that hasn't been > thrown the probability that it will come up 2 (or any of the > other particular values) on the next throw is 1/6 by > definition of fair. Given that it has been thrown and ceterus > paribus the a posteriori probability that it shows 2 given > that it does is 1.0. In that case the probabilities of each > of the other values is 0.0. > > > > The acceleration of an object with constant velocity is 0.0. > If the velocity is changing the acceleration is the > instantaneous change in velocity the knowledge of which is > limited by the ability to measure that. The acceleration of > an object whose velocity is described by a closed form > mathematical function is the derivative of that function as we > learned in calculus. The derivative is defined by limits. > This is theoretical and approximates what happens in the > physical world. > > > > Questions and comments are welcome. > > > > Frank > > > > > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 7:21 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I thought the conversation about probability, category > errors, and crossing boundaries between levels of > organization was interesting and I was sorry I had to > leave it. I want to say that to speak a die as having a > probability of 1/6 of coming up 6 on a single throw is a > category error because it is not a property that can be > displayed on a single throw. It’s the same worry that I > have often deployed about the calculus. If we take the > idea of a category error seriously, then acceleration is > just not the sort of thing an object can have at an > instant. But just as clearly as this argument is too > strong – lots of very nice longstanding bridges have been > built with the calculus – so the argument is also too > strong with respect to probability – lots of nice atom > bombs have been built with probability theory … or > something. > > > > I care about this because my standard account of such > concepts as “wanting” is that they are properties of the > population of responses to an object, not properties of > any one of those responses. We encounter the same > problem with anecdotes and newspaper photographs designed > to illustrate some general fact. If the generally fact is > that “very few of the immigrants at the southern border > are well treated” a single photograph looking peaked or > hungry is irrelevant. Equally irrelevant would be a > picture of a bright eyed kid sitting in the lap of a > border patrol officer eating a hot-fudge sundae. > > > > This makes me wonder about one of the foundations of > psychological research, the statistics of inference, which > I think Peirce invented. Let a coin be thrown 10 times > and each time come up heads. What I think Peirce would > have me conclude is that that coin is unlikely to be drawn > from a population of fair throws of a fair coin. But, of > coure, what we are likely to conclude is that “this coin > is not fair.” But that could be as misguided, couldn’t > it, as concluding that the kid in the lap of the border > patrol officers is being mistreated. > > > > I apologize, once more, for sharing my comfusions with you. > > > > n > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Frank > Wimberly > *Sent:* Friday, October 1, 2021 6:46 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > *Subject:* [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate > > > > > https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/61/1/119 > <https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/61/1/119> > > > > This is for those who attended this morning's vFriam > meeting. I was Schachter's colleague, among a couple of > others. > > > > > > --- > Frank C. 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