Glen,
I am overjoyed to see that Hume's Guillotine is the origin of my "note the use of modal language" thing. Live and Loin the Lamchop said. See, from Glen's post: The difficulty of deriving facts about how people ought to behave from facts about how the world is was most famously articulated by David Hume in his A Treatise of Human Nature (1739): "In every system of morality, which I have hitherto met with, I have always remark'd, that the author proceeds for some time in the ordinary ways of reasoning, and establishes the being of a God, or makes observations concerning human affairs; when all of a sudden I am surpriz'd to find, that instead of the usual copulations of propositions, is, and is not, I meet with no proposition that is not connected with an ought, or an ought not. This change is imperceptible; but is however, of the last consequence. For as this ought, or ought not, expresses some new relation or affirmation, 'tis necessary that it shou'd be observ'd and explain'd; and at the same time that a reason should be given; for what seems altogether inconceivable, how this new relation can be a deduction from others, which are entirely different from it." This is called the "is-ought problem", or sometimes "Hume's Guillotine" (because it severs any connection between "is"- and "ought"-statements). My understanding is that Hume is generally believed to have meant not just that people jump from "is” to "ought" without sufficient justification, but that such a jump is in fact logically impossible. Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 4:04 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence One place such reductionism comes into play is Hume's Guillotine: <https://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2010/01/humes-guillotine.html> https://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2010/01/humes-guillotine.html Personally, this incessant attempt to dichotomize the world into 2 things tires me. Duplicity is simply an uninteresting form of multiplicity. At least even Nick argues for triads. 8^D One of my favorite examples while Trump was in charge was Hillary's gaffe about having a public *and* private opinion on Wall Street. Well, duh... We all have both public and private opnions on just about everything. Not only that, but we have semi-public and semi-private opinions on just about everything. What drives the tu quoque fallacy? On 9/22/21 12:54 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Nothing wrong with taking independent positions. Contradictory positions, > or duplicitous positions used to advance politically can exposed for what > they are though. Any amount of pain I can add to their lives is time well > spent. > > Of course, the Murderous Profiteer can be a Wokeist for some definition of > each. And it depends what the motive is. If one wants to extract candid > views from compatible audiences for each prototype, e.g. as a undercover > agent or as an anthropologist, that kind of deception is distinct than a > self-serving one. Politicians would be the classic example of someone > taking both sides depending on the audience. A generous perspective on > such people would be that they are managing a divergent beliefs population > and that it is necessary to do so. I would much prefer they argue back to > the people they are representing to convince them they are wrong. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam < <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 12:41 PM > To: <mailto:friam@redfish.com> friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence > > As long as the objective of illustrating people taking incompatible positions > is to illustrate that incompatible positions are everywhere, all the time, > I'd have no objection. But my reaction to some consistency hobgoblin pointing > out how incompatible my Murderous Profiteer homunculus is with my Wokeist > homunculus, will be to simply ignore whatever it is that person has to say > from now on. Tell me something I don't know, Captain Obvious. > > On 9/22/21 12:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> I love the idea of Google Glass, but preferably covert -- pickups in my >> visual cortex maybe. Then rather than wasting my time trying to find >> something to watch on Netflix at the end of the day, I could flip through my >> audio/visual experiences and build my Big Book of Lies for future reference. >> >> >> iOS has a nice feature for sending different content to e-mail, to Slack, >> whatever. It would be great fun to paste from these archives to illustrate >> people taking incompatible positions to things they say in writing, etc. >> >> And I don't see why Google Glass, or the Facebook glasses should have a >> light. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam < <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> friam-boun...@redfish.com> >> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 11:55 AM >> To: <mailto:friam@redfish.com> friam@redfish.com >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence >> >> Yeah, continuing the trend of trashing "the hard problem", the zombie >> argument never carried water for me. The duplicates argument, by contrast, >> carries a lot ... ala the broken Star Trek Transporter that fails to >> dissolve the original when it makes the copy. Can we really say the Kirk on >> the planet is the same as the Kirk on the ship? What's the half-life for the >> dissolution into 2 different Kirk-qualia? >> >> On 9/22/21 11:31 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>> The word that comes to mind is duplicity! >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam < <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> friam-boun...@redfish.com> >>> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 11:20 AM >>> To: <mailto:friam@redfish.com> friam@redfish.com >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence >>> >>> Is it a single spectrum? I suppose the typical use of "spectrum" implies a >>> singular measure. But I don't intend it that way. So, maybe I need a better >>> phrase ... "phase space"? "milieu"? "ambient muck"? >>> >>> One problem with medication, including implants and AR (witness Google >>> Glassholes), is that it inhibits one's agility to swap in and out of >>> "sticking out". At large parties, for example, I enjoy hopping from one >>> clique to another and changing my personality so that it either fits in or >>> sticks out. Alcohol tends to limit that ability ... at least in excess. >>> Small parties suck, to be honest. You kinda have to choose your role at the >>> beginning (or have your role chosen for you by history or an introduction >>> by someone -- Renee' introduces the local lefties saying that I worked at >>> Lockheed Martin and my role has been chosen for me ... killer profiteer's >>> unite!). >>> >>> On 9/22/21 11:00 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>> Steve writes: >>>> >>>> < Is it a single spectrum? I propose a few components: >>>> >>>> 1. Self Exploration >>>> 2. Creativity Enhancement >>>> 3. Medicating for Social Anxiety >>>> 4. Medicating for Depression >>>> 5. Self Identity/Expression >>>> 6. Avoidance >>>> 7. ... >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Being a vegan, for example, is an inconvenience and one will tend to >>>> impact a group. Not participating in the hedonism around you will make >>>> you stick out. >>> >> > -- "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." ☤>$ uǝlƃ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/> http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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