Makes me think of Rand Paul. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 5:54 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > A public servant remarked to me that their boss mostly does things to > pacify unreasonable people. This in turn encourages more unreasonable > behavior. The agency of the unreasonable people is characterized by how > much disruption they can cause, not by the inherent value of the goals that > they have. The goals are just a temporary means by which to demonstrate > their agency and process their feelings of alienation. I suggest that > this neediness at some point becomes toxic and cannot be repaired. At a > company, those people get fired. > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith > *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2021 3:16 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side > > > > Those who seek cooperative or collaborative support, jointly generated, > from others, should explain themselves to all as contributing a part of the > joint effort, collaboration, and mutual responsibility. > > > > The same argument applies to not being exploitative in wage negotiations, > poisoning backyards that can’t efford to push it off, colonialism, etc. > > > > I still think that what one doesn’t know is secondary to the point, > though. This is all about holding a position that the society you live in > is illegitimate, and wanting to act out your animosity toward it or > contempt for it, as a kind of defiant expression of some kind of agency. > > > > Max Rose, I think it was, had some sort of good comment about this. We > have to break out of the death spiral of having this as the motivation if > we are to break out of the death spiral. > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > On Aug 27, 2021, at 4:22 AM, Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm> wrote: > > > > > > Explain themselves to _____? To you? For the purpose of _______? Securing > your approval? > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > They need to explain themselves, and it is entirely appropriate to make > their lives risky and inconvenient until they do. > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:07 PM > > *To:* friam@redfish.com > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side > > > > > > Glen is very sensitive to potential misrepresentation/misinterpretation of > his words, as am I. I merely asked if Glen's sentences, which on their face > seem to equate anti-vax and stupid, should be interpreted that way. In a > sense I was trolling him because I know he would not make such a blanket > and absolute assertion. > > > > However, the entire tenor of the thread, and the public rhetoric regarding > people holding anti-vax positions seems, to me, to be grounded in exactly > this kind of assertion: "if *you* (a person) are anti-vax *you* are > stupid (and probably a Trumpista or at least a Republican). > > > > In my opinion this kind of assertion is wrong, harmful, and, if your goal > is to increase vaccination rates, entirely counter-productive. > > > > davew > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 10:55 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote: > > > I addressed the stupid people vs stupid acts. Dave makes that > > > conflation. I don't. > > > > > > But re: punishment - I also never claimed stupidity should be punished. > > > I claimed stupidity should be painful. As a person who inflicts pain on > > > myself daily, on purpose, it would be silly to identify pain with > > > punishment. Futher, many of us are affected by chronic pain, often of > > > unknown mechanism/origin. Sophistry about the problem of Evil > > > notwithstanding, chronic pain is not the universe punishing you. The > > > story of Job is a stupid story. > > > > > > We *could* talk about pain as a mechanism for aversive learning, > > > though. The chronic pain I suffer from has taught me how to (and that I > > > must) moderately meter out my pain in order to avoid greater amounts of > > > pain. Pain has taught me a great deal. It's not a punishment in the > > > slightest sense of that word. > > > > > > On 8/26/21 9:44 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > It would be good to make a distinction between "punishment" and > "self-preservation". There is something incoherent about asserting that > stupid people need to be punished, because one of the salient features of > stupidity is an inability to learn from experience. > > > > > > > > Also, don't we need to distinguish between stupid people and stupid > acts? > > > -- > > > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,_gXhctQxZmaJkmKeeWm3dibxB0WMDS9JefrAV4WTSzDGSqdf82GtrPQyLE4qtDXgrdWj13voJdwwCTsKVsoOB7HP1JjjOLHHg1wSszSOYTqtjw,,&typo=1> > > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,UjSlySURNv54_4f1Pob-CF7Y9Yceh380A3sa4BdG_ymNna1Dy7L5EqLoE16qvM8YkV-29I1WOIFEbxHRoExvq6RMxluJGOPbDBNe_W6OPljA&typo=1> > > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,Q7aeAPPpi3CKkC4ZSHRmoHFM9BauMvL7MAANDxZxQJSG3WotfJ_1mhVgodYdYCQNUh9BWMCZyeLPYlDDSWOWHmf0T-au8PtClTuaRAPt2PjGZW7I4IF-T4nmo2Lf&typo=1> > > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,Yr5AWMNuby0nfVW1FtpJBDSREwBbk7co-Km2PzienUnrT6NH0804AP6Vn2_rE7RPr9zjRE7ChyQFf3pHmNxJvhyDaRjw-kRmK1sacx-VJ-LIirl9DHszuC70Mg2x&typo=1> > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,TPIN4uXg5tkG3Houfsb5eoNv6gFxfMuGZdtrS_wBhhVvyBJ70jFSxJS9vBJ1gPMipaZnWECWK2mRX7_Po1Ch9Y6EdGIIewAOm6GRhHNqIFc_jEPNjAIqhbeq&typo=1> > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,CLxYDrNZ-Kpm4lesPog-NHXFw1U9f3WoOcFY2FIxMwTds_ofstgJSrFhWeL7GpE03GvmvAU_hTZTsKtYNzqLVjR_NLR0ie8JRMQNZqie3P-txIJW4KeMR2UT&typo=1> > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,04cZFEwRrxhK7wOXxWOpeUjfn2fKreIAY5BmIBEnO1LffVs1s6CSDZME_HueOXWew9zQN_7XjdpzR7M1RFOQQTZL5YQi0dnXk53vHq0bpsEeJ8fZ&typo=1 > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,YLiUpNkcjGUps3caVUDsumNb9WsTj-QQygki0Ox4SdCp0NFMEbAHOThoDfHEu-zBSGMYhfvSdjVpZuZNwh_E3_rmpOtyeRIlp8OUQmxyEHzyHc0EZzQ,&typo=1 > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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