I agree, Dave, that calling other people stupid is stupid, even though it is deeply satisfying and great for organizing lynch parties.
Nick Nick Thompson <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 11:28 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side Glen stated: "Shun the anti-vax. Stupidity must be painful." Is it correct to interpret this statement: anti-vax equates to stupidity in all cases without exception? Such an interpretation would certainly be consistent with the prevailing rhetoric. And it very clearly delineates two groups: Them the stupid and Us the enlightened. Am I, for example, stupid; giving no regard to the basis of my being anti-vax, for me personally? [BTW, my analytical evaluation and conclusions did not stop me from getting vaccinated despite my antipathy. But my doing so was simply a matter of coercion.] davew On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 8:15 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote: > Any place but the ER is irrelevant. Other paths to hospital inpatient > or PT/allergy/optha clinics *should* require proof of vax or PCR test > results. I agree. Shun the anti-vax. Stupidity must be painful. > > But re: ER, I disagree. It's impractical to the point of silliness. > > On 8/25/21 10:56 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > They aren't under a mandate to have sufficient capacity, or they'd have > > sufficient capacity. Through a triage process they can prioritize. It > > must happen already, even if it isn't legal. Oh, the local drug addict is > > here again. That guy is probably not #1 for the attention of the doctors. > > If enough big organizations like hospitals, grocery stores, etc. simply > > refuse to patronize people without evidence of vaccination, there doesn't > > need to be a mandate. And it isn't just ERs, there are people getting > > allergy shots, getting physical therapy, eyeglasses adjusted, etc. No > > shirt, no shoes, no vaccination, no service. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > > > On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2021 10:47 AM > > To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side > > > > That's just nonsense. By the time you're at the ER, the vaccine is largely > > irrelevant. Plus, when some 18 year old kid comes in unconscious with a > > gunshot wound, it's difficult to ask her if she's been vaccinated or not. > > > > Anyway, most large hospitals are under a mandate to treat whoever walks in > > the door, even if they don't have insurance. To make the change you suggest > > would require major legislative effort and, perhaps, re-architect the laws > > that govern public medicine. You're not gonna do that anytime soon. > > > > Taking a look at this site: > > https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944379919/new-data-reveal-which-hospitals-are-dangerously-full-is-yours > > it seems the ratio of covid patients is actually lower than I thought. The > > actual problem is insufficient buffer capacity, not the surge in covid > > patients. The covid patients are simply demonstrating the problem. > > > > > > On 8/25/21 9:58 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >> Will you consent to a vaccine? > >> > >> Yes: You get treatment for your non-COVID condition. No: Get lost. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > >> > On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2021 9:53 AM > >> To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side > >> > >> Because the majority of the patients in the ERs are not covid patients. > >> (Last I heard the percentages were around 60-70% are non-covid. But I'm > >> sure it's location dependent.) They're regular people with regular > >> problems, many of whom delayed medical treatments for a year due to > >> lockdowns. We did a little too much "just in time" logistical planning > >> with our hospitals and this fairly tiny bump is demonstrating that our > >> buffer wasn't high enough. > >> > >> The smart thing to do is increase capacity, correct the buffer size, and > >> take care of both covid patients and regular people. > >> > >> > >> On 8/25/21 9:33 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>> Why should we increase the capacity of the hospitals? Just don't let > >>> them in. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > >>> > On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2021 9:25 AM > >>> To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side > >>> > >>> Well, only if you don't make a big stink out of it. If it's a normal, > >>> everyday thing, yeah sure. But if it's some litmus test for who's with us > >>> or who's against us, then they're much less willing to submit to such > >>> tests. > >>> > >>> You see this in spades w.r.t. to the protests. In Portland, they antifa > >>> are rigorous about staging counter protests, which makes the fascists dig > >>> in and be more committed to protesting, which makes the antifa more > >>> committed, ad infinitum. Here in Olympia, it's mostly just the fascists > >>> out there protesting mask and vaccine mandates. (Yes, irony is dead.) But > >>> as a result, they're anticlimactic and peter out pretty comfortably. > >>> > >>> Along the same lines of "don't feed the troll", if we focused our > >>> attention on increasing the capacities of hospitals rather than brow > >>> beating the anti-vaxers, I suspect the vax rate would climb steadily and > >>> the reactionary tendencies of the anti-vaxers would abate. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 8/25/21 9:09 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>>> These same people are willing to submit to an employer's drug tests. > > > -- > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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