Hi Nick, There probably are many such studies that people on this list will know of from deeper traditions in Computer Science, but the one I happen to know about is solo work by David Ackley of UNM. He did a study of the replacement statistics of C libraries in open-source software, explicitly looking for how the causal dependencies in an evolving system, not master-planned, but constantly sieved for internal consistency, would lead to punctuated equilibrium and landslide dynamics as changes accumulated.
I don’t know how much of this Dave published; I know of it through a few public presentations he made at SFI events. Perhaps between 10 and 14 years ago? Could be that I am off, and that it is in the 5-year interval earlier than that. Best, Eric > On Dec 26, 2019, at 11:53 AM, <thompnicks...@gmail.com> > <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Has anybody written for us defrocked English majors an account of the > evolution of software. It must be subject to the same klugy processes that > organismic evolution is but it also must be different because, with software > evolution you can, SOMETIMES, go back to the beginning and start again. > Wildly Naïve Question: If one “sequenced” today’s Windows, how many DOS > “genes” would one find? I note, for instance, that still, after 30 years, in > order to identify New Mexico as one’s state, to most websites, one still has > to scroll down a list of states, and last week, I ran into a list of > countries in which US was not the first item. Just like the good old days. > I assume that developers just keep taking that old piece of crap off the > shelf and sticking it into their programs. > > Nick > > Nicholas Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On > Behalf Of Frank Wimberly > Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2019 8:44 AM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com > <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] IT is Not Sustainable > > > June 2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template message). 5ESS used in > a mobile telephone network. The 5ESS Switching System is a Class 5 telephone > electronic switching system developed by ... > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > <https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly> > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2> > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 8:36 AM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com > <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: >> Frank writes: >> >> “This was the telephone network in question.“ >> >> With the mobile carriers and VOIP, I wonder how much of that code is still >> used? I once worked for a small company that wrote software to do billing >> for long distance telephone carriers. I was amazed by the seemingly >> arbitrary complexity. Complex at a policy and inter-organizational level, >> not just the software. >> >> Marcus >> >> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> >> on behalf of Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com >> <mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> >> Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >> <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> >> Date: Thursday, December 26, 2019 at 5:39 AM >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com >> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] IT is Not Sustainable >> >> At Bell Labs we sure didn't pay anyone by LOC. We also had code reviews and >> software tools to enforce standards and very high pay. With a brand new PhD >> I made more than all but the 3 most senior members of the CS faculty at Pitt >> where I was a grad student. This was the telephone network in question. >> >> Despite the high pay I disliked software administration methodology. The >> disagreements between the software tool developers (version control, >> integration of subsystems, compilers, etc) and the implementors of the >> applications, such as call processing, were epic. Recall that Bell Labs >> invented C and Unix. After 18 months I returned to Pittsburgh to work at >> Carnegie Mellon in Robotics for two thirds the salary. >> >> Number 5 ESS was first deployed in March 1982, 4 years after work began. I >> suspect that it didn't have 200 million lines of code then, but close to it. >> Maybe Dave doesn't consider it an IT project but many of the software tools >> that were developed were included in later Unix releases, I believe. >> >> It's going to be a beautiful day in Santa Fe. >> >> Frank >> >> >> ----------------------------------- >> Frank Wimberly >> >> My memoir: >> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly >> <https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly> >> >> My scientific publications: >> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 >> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2> >> >> Phone (505) 670-9918 >> >> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 1:28 AM Gary Schiltz <g...@naturesvisualarts.com >> <mailto:g...@naturesvisualarts.com>> wrote: >>> Spot on. >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 2:29 AM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com >>> <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: >>>> Most programmers won't struggle to rationalize or improve code written by >>>> other people. The problem is that people are selfish. They think that >>>> their 10K LOC problem is beautiful and nimble, but that 1M LOC was once >>>> that too. It's the behavior of teenagers. >>>> >>>> On 12/25/19, 10:47 PM, "Friam on behalf of Russell Standish" >>>> <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of >>>> li...@hpcoders.com.au <mailto:li...@hpcoders.com.au>> wrote: >>>> >>>> It's all about the LOC! Actually, I kind of agree - having worked on >>>> some MegaLOC codebases that functionally seemed to be no more complex >>>> than a 10KLOC project I'm involved in, the 10KLOC project is much more >>>> nimble - compile times are far less, making changes to the code easier >>>> and bugs less troublesome to winkle out. >>>> >>>> I've also refactored or rewritten pieces of code to slash the LOC by a >>>> factor of 3 or more for that particular section (eg 3KLOC -> 1KLOC) - >>>> but usually when bugs and problems kept on cropping up in that >>>> section. >>>> >>>> Even though the LOC is an entirely bogus measurement - if you paid a >>>> programmer by LOC, you'd get boilerplate and crappy comments. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >>>> Principal, High Performance Coders >>>> Visiting Senior Research Fellow hpco...@hpcoders.com.au >>>> <mailto:hpco...@hpcoders.com.au> >>>> Economics, Kingston University http://www.hpcoders.com.au >>>> <http://www.hpcoders.com.au/> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> >>>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove >>>> >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> >>>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> >>>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. >>>> Strangelove >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> >>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove
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