Unfortunately, that is the sense in which I thought you were using the term. Have I been strawmanned? 8^)
The packaging of a scalar vs the packaging of a matrix are "levels of analysis", if there ever was such a thing. 8^) To use Eric(C)'s words the organization of a set of numbers into a matrix isn't in the scalars of which it's composed. My example was that higher-organized things like feeling hungry mix directly with lower-organized things like eyeball jittering. The organization of the low level stuff (e.g. tissues) isn't hygenically separated from the organization of the chemicals into a cell. I.e. tissue isn't strictly made up of cells, and cells aren't strictly made up of complex molecules, etc. Tissue is a cross-level operator. Tissue is made of molecules as well as cells (as well as other mixed-level things like lumens). Hence, it's a fiction (oversimplification) to say that tissue is an organization of cells. Your hierarchy is fictitious (though perhaps useful for an entry into some subject matter). On January 5, 2019 2:49:16 PM PST, Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > >But you are exactly right that that is the sense in which I wanted to >use the term. > > > > > >From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Eric >Charles >Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2019 3:05 PM >To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group ><friam@redfish.com> >Subject: [FRIAM] Motives - Was Abduction > > > >Glen said: " I would claim motives are a higher order behavior, but NOT >(solely) at a higher level of organization. I.e. motives consist of >BOTH low level behaviors like eyeball saccades AND high level behaviors >like how one feels about another person." And then a bit later Glen >complained (rightly) that no one had followed up on his examples. I >will attempt to fill that gap! > > > >I suspect the first issue is here is what we call "higher level." >Sometimes, when people reference "higher level behavior", they are >envisioning something like a "ladder of life" with simpler beings lower >down and more complex beings higher up. In that context, something like >a saccade is low on the scale, because many "lower beings" do it, and >throwing a baseball might be higher on the scale, because only a few >non-human species are capable of such a thing. Based on how the above >quote is phrased, I believe that is what Glen very-understandably >thinks Nick is be talking about. However, Nick is invoking something >else entirely, something like "levels of analysis" talk, in which >meaningful "higher" things exist in the relations between lower-level >things. > > > >The most common context in which people are exposed to this is in >biology class, where we are told that at some level there are cells, >and that many cells of similar type make tissue, tissue combines into >organs, organs into organ systems, and systems into organisms. In some >obvious sense, cells "make up" organs, but also one would not really >come to understand organs by virtue of individually examining cells. >There is something "higher-level" going on, something about the >organization of the cells that we consider important, and worth talking >about and studying in its own right, which is why organ-talk and >organ-level science are things. > > > >When Nick says that " Motives ARE behavior. Just at a higher level of >organization.", he means "higher level" in that sense. We see that >someone is motivated towards a certain goal when we witness them >varying their behavior across circumstances in order to achieve that >goal. If we want to measure how motivated someone is, we change the >circumstances so that they are no longer directed at (what we assume to >be) their goal, and then measure the strength of their effort to >"return to course." That line of thought can be elaborated extensively, >with other examples brought in from both scientific efforts and mundane >life, and what you end up with is the conclusion that: Motives are an >identifiable type of pattern that can exist between behavior and >circumstances, specifically a pattern in which behavior changes such >that the acts in question continue to be directed towards producing a >particular outcome. -- glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
