Hurricanes are interesting because they are naturally occurring dissipative systems.
On May 29, 2017 5:28 PM, "Marcus Daniels" <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > Hurricanes are an instances of multiscale fluid dynamics, or set of > problems (cyclogenesis, heat engine, cyclolysis). They are all > complicated coupled systems, but it is not clear to me what extra insight > is gained by calling them complex systems. > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Nick > Thompson > *Sent:* Sunday, May 28, 2017 10:07 PM > *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems? > > > > Again, apologies for getting into this discussion so tardily? > > > > Is a hurricane a “complex system”? > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com > <friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith > *Sent:* Sunday, May 28, 2017 11:37 PM > *To:* russ.abb...@gmail.com; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee > Group <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems? > > > > Russ - > > I think your message got lost in the "uncanny valley"... the conversation > has been so rich that this contribution (by the instigating author of the > thread) did get lost to it's relative obviousness. I know *I* read > through it and nodded my head but instead felt compelled to respond to SG's > post which *was* (I think) in response to this. > > I have suggested a new thread and this type of question (dual-worldness) > would probably be central to it. I do hope others weigh in. > > - Steve > > > > On 5/28/17 1:58 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: > > I'm wondering whether the message below got lost. Our did no one think it > worth mentioning? > > > > On May 28, 2017 6:35 PM, "Russ Abbott" <russ.abb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Greetings from Jerusalem! Quite an amazing city. Never been here before. > Quite an amazing discussion too. > > > > My interest, I think, is not so much in defining what we (want to) mean by > a complex system buy in exploring the implications of systems consisting of > agents as described earlier. The ability to process symbols seems to me to > make all the difference in the world. > > > > Physical entities capable of processing symbols seem to me to live it two > worlds: the physical and the symbolic. (The original question was prompted > by the notion that complexity requires that sort of dual worldness. But > that's not my core concern. You can probably get pretty far wrt complexity > in a world that includes switches, where by a switch I mean one energy flow > that controls another, a light switch for example. So systems of multiple > energy flows where one controls another like weather and geology are good > candidates.) > > > > Symbolic processing, including computers, is a step beyond switches. Half > a century ago Newell and Simon defined computers as physical symbol > machines. We and many biological organisms are physical symbol machines > also. I think that's an important way to look at it. > > > > The thing about physical symbol machines is that the rules of causation > they follow are more complex than those of physics. > > > > That's enough rambling for now on my cell phone. > > > > On May 28, 2017 6:04 PM, "Stephen Guerin" <stephen.gue...@simtable.com> > wrote: > > Marcos writes; > > Depending on which J values are zero, there can one phase space or many > independent phase spaces depending on how many disconnected components > there are. > > > > I agree with a small tweak. > > > > Yes, the subgraphs would have their own independent phase spaces > (especially if topologies were dissimilar). Though, I would not call the > independent subgraphs components as they are no longer part of a larger > whole. If the subgraphs are independent and not interacting you cease to > have one system. You have multiple independent systems each with their own > phase spaces. > > > > I'll wrap with my position: > > - I gave three examples of non-biological complex systems based on > Russ's initial question > - Russ's additional criteria later in the thread are similar to > distinguishing criteria for complex living systems vs complex non-living > systems. This is an area of research I'm fascinated with and I encourage > this line of discussion > - If I need to use Russ's criteria, I can't think of a non-biological > example. To me it's like asking for a non-biological example of a living > system. > - I disagree with Russ's claim that all complex systems must satisfy > his criteria to be a complex system. It is too limiting. > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
