> On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
> >
> > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be
> > confusing
> > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell
> > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh.
> >
> > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in
> > interactive mode:
> > * command completion (thanks pstef@)
> > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other
> > shells
> > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR)
> > * support for history as described by POSIX.
> >
> > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to
> > propose to
> > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed)
> >
> > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this
> > proposal happen.
> >
> > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Baptiste
> >
>
> Hello,
>
> I applaud the proposal to change the default login shell of root to
> /bin/sh. As you mention the rest of the Unix(-like) world has used a
> Bourne-like root login shell forever. It is one of the first things I
> change on a new FreeBSD install anyway.
So now you stop changing it, something you have grown use to doing,
and all of us who want the old behavior have to add a change item
to our list of post install stuff. We BOTH end up with version
conditional tweaks to the base system. Is that a good idea?
> While there, you could change "Charlie &" in the gecos field to
> something more sensible, e.g. just "Superuser". I know Charlie is there
> since 4.2BSD, but the reference to a long forgotten baseball player is
> probably lost by now. Also, a lot of explanation is often needed when
> users receive (automated) emails from Charlie Root.
>
> Once the login shell of root has changed to /bin/sh, I do not see any
> reason to keep toor around. It is there since 4.3BSD, but I don't know
> anybody who uses it in the long term. Many will just change the login
> shell of root to a Bourne-like shell right away.
Your lack of knowing anyone who uses it, does not indicate lack
of use. If I want a /bin/sh root user I type:
su - toor
So now you know someone who uses it!
>
> I have experimented a bit with the new usability features of sh in 14.0
> and I must say that it was quite a positive experience. I could easily
> suppress the urge to install and use bash instead of sh. I wonder if the
> changes (but not the ones to /etc/passwd) could be MFC'd in a few
> months, once they have matured a bit, so they would land in 13.1. As you
> mention elsewhere in this thread, usage in scripts is not affected by
> these changes. And for interactive use it could be a POLA violation, but
> the astonishment would be a positive one.
>
> --
> Kind regards,
>
> Hans Ottevanger
>
> Eindhoven, Netherlands.
> [email protected]
> www.beastielabs.net
>
>
--
Rod Grimes [email protected]
