On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 3:37 PM Michael Niedermayer <mich...@niedermayer.cc> wrote:
> Hi > > On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 07:44:49AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote: > > Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2024-12-21 04:57:26) > > > > > > > This is frankly a load of bullshit, and I find it insulting that you > > expect people to swallow it. > > > > At least in the past five years, ML moderators have NEVER used their > > powers in this manner. > > > Not even once, not in the most toxic threads, > > never. > > I do claim, that is NOT a good thing > > > > And yet now, you suddenly decide that it's always been okay and > > supposed to work this way. And presumably we have always been at war > > with Eastasia. > > > > > > with no oversight. > > > > > > What does that even mean ? > > > If a discussion goes of the rails and becomes "toxic" the moderator > > > must step in and take action. At worst a mail is delayed or may need to > > > be resent (if really a mistake is made). > > > > > > Iam fairly sure i remember you wanting something to be done about the > tone > > > and lack of friendlyness on the ML years ago. > > > > > > more so, half of the current CC candidates where involved in fuelling > > > the previous unfriendly threads. So we cannot even vote for a CC that > has > > > 5 members who have not been involved. > > > > > So you're saying that because our democratic process does not work > > yes > > > > the > > way you like, > > the way anyone likes ? (everyone from every side complained) > > > > you are going to ignore it and do things your way. > > Or put differently, all our democracy is just pretend and in the end > > it's you personally who calls the shots. In that case you should have > > the guts to come out and say so directly instead of hiding behind > > walls of fallacious arguments. Then I wouldn't need to waste time and > > effort on organizing all those votes and elections. > > The tone on the mailing list is bad, and alot of the bad toned mails > really do not belong onto ffmpeg-devel. > I think thats the view of many people from many sides. The difference is > people find their own mail excempt of course. > > So yes, if the CC doesnt stop it, if the people out of their own choice > dont stop. Then yes in last instance i have to stop these mails. It is > going to destroy the community otherwise. > > I have tried ignoring it, I have tried for 2 years to let the CC resolve > it. > Several CC members truly tried to improve the situation. > Noone, i have ever spoken with, said (s)he likes these threads. People have > different oppinions about who is at fault but noone likes the tone in these > threads. > > So what moderators would likely do is: > 1. simply remind developers that this list is for "FFmpeg development" and > that > comments about people are not on topic. > 2. set developers who have been disproportionally reminded of that, to > moderated > as long as needed > 3. patches and reviews from moderated developers would then be delayed by > ~24h until a moderator approves them. > > If i stand by and do nothing, THAT would be abusing of my power > > Also, anyone who doesnt want this "moderation thing", > * dont send badly toned mails > * if you see someone else talking about fellow developers in a bad tone, > remind them that this doesnt belong on ffmpeg-devel without starting an > argument. Or like ronald did, ask them to tone it down. > Micheal, just as to recap the last few months... - you joined the CC and stalled executive action that would have improved the community (see the various emails you yourself leaked) - you played some fun games with STF to get you insane amount of sponsor money for work that has effectively already been done (and then played it off saying it was a donation for FFmpeg) - people noticed and voiced their disagreement, upon which you started finding their tone "unfriendly" and mass reported them to the CC, clogging it - you brought back old topics about booths, and despite being proven wrong multiple times, you still believe that the community is wrong in asking for more accountability for booths and representation - you fought through your teeth to avoid providing documentation on the infrastructure, and the little information provided in weeks proved incomplete (ie, a mailing list admin admitting of being one to everybody's surprise) - you started disparaging the CC because not taking action and questioning its usefulness - at the same time you blocked the election of any new root, mentioning extra scrutiny that no one else went through, stalling any chance of moving to gitea/gitlab, something the community really needed and wanted - you raised concern of the proposed set of candidates on the grounds that they have been involved in "flames" that you yourself caused - you defended a mailing list admin that unilaterally stopped a discussion that you yourself caused, and instead of condemning his actions you defended him because they were favorable to you - people tried to explain to you that your behavior might have not been the most proper in the last few months - you started posting more wall of texts that picture you as the victim - it's Christmas and we are quoting Orwell Am I missing anything? Do you see why people might be rightfully annoyed by this persistent behavior? We could have had a CC normal election and a good holiday break, and instead we're all here *yet again* bringing back painful past decisions, rambling incoherently, smearing of community members, and who knows what walls of text will be next! And in the end, for as long as you are involved, nothing will ever change - you and your friends will still believe an empty booth with a competing for-profit open source project is a good thing, and it's *the other side* who is wrong, you don't trust anybody who's not your friend to host ffmpeg infra because *who knows what the other side would do*, and so on and on, in an ever growing spiral of paranoia and doom. In short, you are reaping the benefits of what you sowed -- if you cared about the project and everybody's sanity (including your own mental health), you would have actually resigned and left FFmpeg years ago. I humbly recommend that you at least take a few years of hiatus, this community will be welcoming you when you feel better again. Merry Christmas -- Vittorio _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-requ...@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
