> On 29 Jun 2020, at 01:12, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> > wrote: > > The Schrodinger cat argument is meant to illustrate a sort of > reductio-absurdism. A cat is a macroscopic and thermal object that is filled > with quantum noise. It is massively decoherent. This means there is no real > physical way for it to be in an entangled state so half alive and dead.
I would have said that this means there is no physical way to exploit its entangled state. By linearity, the quantum superposition has not disappeared, but it cannot be measured as such due to leak/contagion of it with the (unknown and very complex) environment. … or you reintroduce a physical wave packet reduction, suggesting that the SWE does not apply to the couple cat+particle. Macro-superposition are just technically irretrievable, but I don’t see how we could eliminate those relative states without abandoning or restricting the use of the SWE. Of course, I am biased by Mechanism which imposes the macro-superposition by the execution of all computations. Bruno > > LC > > On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 6:44:31 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote: > I stumbled across a related topic regarding Wigner's friend/Schrodinger's Cat > via the observer in QM, in that a traditional cat, not a metaphor would count > from physical principle's as an observer itself. This is going way down the > observer chain, say, from a Boltzmann Brain of hyper intelligence to a cat. > Would a computer system be an observer or a bacteria? Ummmm....? Hey, a BB is > indeed a brain sim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Crowell <[email protected] <javascript:>> > To: Everything List <[email protected] <javascript:>> > Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 7:32 pm > Subject: Re: Importance of including environment in brain simulation > > This video is set towards the end so I have not seen the whole presentation. > At the end he gets into the Wigner's friend problem in QM, and there is the > result of Fraschiger and Renner on this that illustrates limits on the idea > of objective observership. > > A brain to function needs an environment. It must be an open system A brain > or conscious entity that is a closed system is almost a contradiction. > Self-awareness is all within the perspective of a relative basis with an > external world. > > LC > > On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:36:57 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > Brent, > > It looks like you were right about the importance of including environmental > data in a brain simulation. Markus Muller uses algorithmic information theory > to argue that whether or not a simulated brain is a zombie or not, depends on > a large extent to the degree in which environmental information is > incorporated into the simulation: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch? time_continue=1699&v= wsbNT3XEdsA&t=51m40s > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1699&v=wsbNT3XEdsA&t=51m40s> > (See 51 minutes 40 seconds in) > > Jason > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/09762469-698a-4074-b7b0-c016f8155773o%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/09762469-698a-4074-b7b0-c016f8155773o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7d279717-0a9f-4101-8de8-34f092b59315o%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7d279717-0a9f-4101-8de8-34f092b59315o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/0612AA80-732E-44D1-9D8A-A35D58650E8A%40ulb.ac.be.
