> On 20 May 2019, at 19:31, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:03:12 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 18 May 2019, at 00:33, Philip Thrift <[email protected] <javascript:>> >> wrote: >> >> Isn't qualia can be reduced to information processing the unsupported >> assertion? >> >> The burden of proof is on those who claim qualia comes out of information >> processing. >> >> If that claim were true, then any IP system - like a smartphone that can >> execute programs - can have human-type qualia existing inside it. > > It is not because some “information processing” could support consciousness > that we can conclude that all information processing can support > consciousness. You need at least one reflexive loop. You need two reflexive > loop for having self-consciousness (Löbianity). > > But the information processing is not enough, you need a reality, also, be it > the arithmetical truth, or a physical phenomenologies which would be Turing > universal. > > The arithmetical truth must be understood as something beyond all information > processing possible, as we know since Gödel and Tarski. > > The advantage of mechanism is that we do have a theory: computer science (aka > Recrusion theory, or Arithmetic). > > That does not make Mechanism true, but it makes the problems amenable to > mathematical formulation and testing. > > Bruno > > > > > A smartphone CPU, like Samsung's > > > https://www.anandtech.com/show/13599/samsung-announces-8nm-exynos-9820-with-trigroup-cpu-design > > <https://www.anandtech.com/show/13599/samsung-announces-8nm-exynos-9820-with-trigroup-cpu-design> > > can run any "Turing" program.
That is correct. Most iPhone are genuine universal computer. > > So I still don't see from your description what exactly is missing for it to > produce|execute human qualia? Nothing. It has qualia, plausibly close to the dissociative consciousness experience reported by people using ketamine or salvia diqnorum. It looks like “pure consciousness” : like a total amnesia, out of time and space. What the Samsung computer missed is long term memory, freedom to express itself, as such machines are born and confined in being docile slaves. Nobody want a phone who would answer at your place, and do strikes for social security, etc. Bruno > > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3f18a4a2-43a5-4a9b-b110-494e7e37e12b%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3f18a4a2-43a5-4a9b-b110-494e7e37e12b%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/BF678259-B2D3-44A0-B6B3-186C74542D67%40ulb.ac.be.
