On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:46:40 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 19 Feb 2014, at 17:18, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 18/02/2014, David Nyman <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I think if I say consciousness is an epiphenomenon of biochemistry I > >> should also say that life is. > > > > > > And should you not go on to say that biochemistry is an epiphenomenon of > > physics and physics is an epiphenomenon of .... well, something that is > not > > itself epiphenomenal, I guess? The way you formulate the problem seems to > > tend to the conclusion that any and all appearances should strictly be > > considered an epiphenomenon of something more fundamental that cannot > > possibly be encountered directly. And, moreover, there is no entailment > > that any such something be straightforwardly isomorphic with any of those > > appearances. I'm not saying that this view is incoherent, by the way, but > > do you agree that something like this is entailed by what you say? > > I'm making a case for reductionism. If biochemistry necessarily leads to > consciousness > > > Biochemistry or anything Turing universal. > > > > then I don't think this is any different to the situation where > biochemistry necessarily leads to life. > > > Ah! > But then life is clearly a 3p phenomenon, so why make consciousness an > epiphenomenon? Of course consciousness is "only" a 1p phenomenon, but it > can make sense (indeed as a sense maker or receptor). >
Unless my view is right and 1p consciousness is only a subset of p consciousness, and 3p is the (alienated, reduced) difference between p and 1p. Craig > > Bruno > > > If we imagine that the biochemistry is all there but no consciousness that > would be like imagining that the biochemistry is all there but no life > (which Craig can apparently do). > > > > > > > > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
