You're so a joke... cannot doubt your own genius eh !
2014-02-01 Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]>: > Jesse, > > Yes, that "being at the same point in spacetime" is CALLED the present > moment that I'm talking about. > > You are probably repeating the claim that 'coordinate time' falsifies > p-time. It doesn't. Coordinate time is an attempt to explain the obvious > problems with clock time not actually explaining a common present moment > that obviously exists. This is done by coordinate time saying OK we have to > account for the twins being at the same point in spacetime when they > compare clocks so let's just invent a coordinate system that acts as if > clock time doesn't have any effect on something we will call coordinate > time. > > Basically coordinate time is just an attempt to account for the > obviousness of a present moment without actually calling it a 2nd kind of > time but rather just a 2nd kind of spacetime coordinate system in a single > kind of time. > > Coordinate time is half way to p-time but hasn't incorporated the whole > insight... It basically says let's pretend clock time doesn't really happen > so the twins can end up at the SAME point of spacetime because it's obvious > they actually did. But then it remembers that clock time is real and actual > too because it is measurable. Therefore there is a CONTRADICTION between > coordinate time and clock time that p-time resolves by recognizing that > p-time and clock time are actually 2 separate kinds of time, which > coordinate time doesn't. > > Edgar > > > > On Saturday, February 1, 2014 11:30:26 AM UTC-5, jessem wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> And of course it is OBVIOUS that the twins share a common present moment >>> when they compare clocks. Otherwise they couldn't compare clocks now could >>> they? >>> >> >> The fact that they can compare clocks, and agree for example that "twin >> A's turning 30 coincides with twin B's turning 40", is because they are >> making the comparison at the same point in spacetime (assuming ideal >> point-like observers*), and in relativity, all observers agree on which >> events coincide at the same point in spacetime (I've asked you several >> times whether you agree this is always true in relativity but you have >> refused so far to answer). Another way of putting it is that in any >> spacetime coordinate system for labeling the space and time coordinates of >> different events, the event "twin A turns 30" would have to be labeled with >> the same coordinate time (and coordinate position) as the event "twin B >> turns 40". In no way does any of this imply the notion of an objective >> "common present" for events which do NOT coincide at the same point in >> spacetime. >> >> *Of course real observers aren't point-like, but if you think of extended >> observers who compare clocks a few feet apart, there could be disagreements >> over which event happened first in precise terms (whether we're talking >> about visual observations of the events, or which event happened first in >> some inertial frame), but we can say that everyone would agree the two >> events happened within a few tiny fractions of a nanosecond from each >> other, so for all practical purposes there is no disagreement about the >> fact that twin A turning 30 coincided with twin B turning 40. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
