Richard, No, that's not correct. Gravitation is NOT faster than the speed of light. Once a gravitational field is established it is remains there only so long as the mass that produces it is. Remove that mass and the removal of the associated gravitational force propagates at the speed of light as ALL gravitational changes (effects) do.
So if the sun were to vanish, it would still keep the earth in its orbit for 8 minutes... Edgar On Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:52:17 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]<javascript:> > > wrote: > >> Brent, >> >> Obviously the space outside a black hole event horizon is warped. That's >> experimentally confirmed. My question is HOW does it become warped from the >> mass inside the black hole which you now claim doesn't even exist? There >> must be some cause. It's much more reasonable to assume the mass that >> enters a black hole does exist inside the black hole as it does produce a >> gravitational effect. My question is how that gravitational effect, which >> must travel at the speed of light, propagate from the interior of the black >> hole when nothing else can because it would have to travel at FASTER than >> the speed of light to do so? >> > > Gravitation like electrostatics is faster than the speed of light- > seemingly instantaneous > >> >> Re your implication of gravitation perhaps not being mediated by force >> carrying particles. I think there are a number of reasons to doubt the >> existence of gravitons. >> >> 1. For a flow of gravitons to explain gravity they would all continuously >> have to flow in the same direction since gravity acts only in one direction >> (between masses at least). That means there would have to be an >> inexhaustible source of gravitons flowing from ONLY OUT from every mass. >> What's the source of that inexhaustible flow? >> >> 2. Gravity is the only force that cannot be shielded. Thus if gravitons >> existed they would have to flow effortlessly THROUGH everything that exists >> (NON-interaction) at the same time they cause gravitational effects >> (INTERACTION). An apparent contradiction.... >> >> 3. There is no empirical evidence whatsoever that gravitons actually >> exist. >> >> 4. Gravitons are not part of the Standard Model. >> >> So all and all I think there is plenty of reason to doubt the existence >> of gravitons... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Friday, January 24, 2014 10:31:41 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>> >>> On 1/24/2014 4:41 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >>> > Brent, >>> > >>> > No, my proposed dark matter effect has nothing to do with black holes. >>> Black holes are >>> > caused by accumulations of actual visible matter, not by the Hubble >>> expansion of space... >>> > >>> > However I do have a question for you. Since gravitational changes >>> propagate at the speed >>> > of light how does the mass inside a black hole produce gravitational >>> effects outside the >>> > black hole? If light can't come out how can gravitational effects come >>> out? >>> >>> You are thinking of gravity as mediated by force particles, like photons >>> mediate the EM >>> forces. But (at least classically) gravity isn't a force, it's just a >>> shape of space and >>> as I responded to Liz, there's not mass in a black hole, no T_u_v term >>> in the Einstein >>> equation. It's a vacuum solution. That's why it doesn't make any >>> different what falls in >>> to create the black hole. The effects outside the event horizon are >>> just that the space >>> is warped there just *as if* the black hole were a massive object. >>> >>> Brent >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
