On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Brent, > > Obviously the space outside a black hole event horizon is warped. That's > experimentally confirmed. My question is HOW does it become warped from the > mass inside the black hole which you now claim doesn't even exist? There > must be some cause. It's much more reasonable to assume the mass that > enters a black hole does exist inside the black hole as it does produce a > gravitational effect. My question is how that gravitational effect, which > must travel at the speed of light, propagate from the interior of the black > hole when nothing else can because it would have to travel at FASTER than > the speed of light to do so? > Gravitation like electrostatics is faster than the speed of light- seemingly instantaneous > > Re your implication of gravitation perhaps not being mediated by force > carrying particles. I think there are a number of reasons to doubt the > existence of gravitons. > > 1. For a flow of gravitons to explain gravity they would all continuously > have to flow in the same direction since gravity acts only in one direction > (between masses at least). That means there would have to be an > inexhaustible source of gravitons flowing from ONLY OUT from every mass. > What's the source of that inexhaustible flow? > > 2. Gravity is the only force that cannot be shielded. Thus if gravitons > existed they would have to flow effortlessly THROUGH everything that exists > (NON-interaction) at the same time they cause gravitational effects > (INTERACTION). An apparent contradiction.... > > 3. There is no empirical evidence whatsoever that gravitons actually exist. > > 4. Gravitons are not part of the Standard Model. > > So all and all I think there is plenty of reason to doubt the existence of > gravitons... > > Edgar > > > > On Friday, January 24, 2014 10:31:41 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 1/24/2014 4:41 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >> > Brent, >> > >> > No, my proposed dark matter effect has nothing to do with black holes. >> Black holes are >> > caused by accumulations of actual visible matter, not by the Hubble >> expansion of space... >> > >> > However I do have a question for you. Since gravitational changes >> propagate at the speed >> > of light how does the mass inside a black hole produce gravitational >> effects outside the >> > black hole? If light can't come out how can gravitational effects come >> out? >> >> You are thinking of gravity as mediated by force particles, like photons >> mediate the EM >> forces. But (at least classically) gravity isn't a force, it's just a >> shape of space and >> as I responded to Liz, there's not mass in a black hole, no T_u_v term in >> the Einstein >> equation. It's a vacuum solution. That's why it doesn't make any >> different what falls in >> to create the black hole. The effects outside the event horizon are just >> that the space >> is warped there just *as if* the black hole were a massive object. >> >> Brent >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
