In fairness, my guess is that the people "in the know" aren't really expecting to replace diesel locomotives with fuel cells, rather this is more of a one-time deal to keep some R&D guys employed and end-up with something shiny to show for it. It's more of a CEO vanity project so he gets to play with some cool technology, but in the end he can say, "Well it was fun to play with, but it's just not practical, thanks for the 94 million dollars...I learned a lot......". So I doubt they even take it seriously.
But if we are talking about pure energy efficiency, do we even need to consider what the train is powered with? Consider diesel trains .vs. diesel trucks. I'm guessing trains are probably a much, much, much more efficient way of moving long haul freight than trucks, so if you are trying to reduce emissions, the logical thing would be to just start shipping more stuff by train and take more long haul trucks off the road. Yet, do you really see things like Amazon...or UPS or the USPS even wanting to use trains? Are they even set up to do it? Yet obviously airports can do it. Why is that? Ever try shipping anything by train? It's pretty much impossible unless you are some fairly large corporation that wants to ship 20 carloads of chemicals or lumber or something. They don't even want to talk to the little guy. In fact, a quick look at the Union Pacific Shipping site, they say right up front that they don't ship personal property. About the only way for a normal person to do it is through AMTRAK passenger service which seems ridiculous. It's not like stuff doesn't get shipped by train, but it's just what get's shipped. I'm sure this wasn't always the case...especially back before cars and trucks, but somehow, the freight train industry has lost the will to even conceptualize a way of make a business plan to transport random stuff smaller than a carload, yet shipping items via truck happens every day....or hell even shipping a pallet via a ship or an airplane is more straight forward. They have logistical hubs where stuff is moved around and resorted, but the train industry doesn't seem interested. I don't know what the answer is, but It sure seems to me, that this is where the train industry should focus or maybe it's just the generic shipping companies should have a bigger presence at the freight yards. You've got a highly efficient way of moving stuff over long distances but crummy logistics at the endpoints so it seems underutilized. Maybe it's as simple as a merger of sorts between a trucking company and a railroad? ay, November 13, 2024, 5:37:26 PM PST, Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: I will not disagree that hydrogen fuel cells could be the worst possible economic choice to power a train. Aside from political subsidy, there is no motivation whatsoever to use hydrogen fuel. Having said that, the hydrogen used for transportation is not derived from electricity. It is made from natural gas (combined with steam). Making it with electricity is even less logical. Using liquid hydrogen to run a train would probably make a bit more sense than using compressed hydrogen, but overhead electric lines make far more sense economically and also environmentally. Even using batteries would make more sense economically and environmentally than hydrogen fuel. On 11/13/2024 7:56 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > Dear Caltrans, > I am sending this email to multiple recipients.Hydrogen is the most wasteful > and inefficient use of electric power. Nothing beats direct use of energy via > overhead lines. This is especially true with trains as they are on fixed > routes. Upcoming projects are likely abandoned, due to high cost, when > federal assistance runs out. Somebody could stop the waste now. > Caltrans' Division of Rail and Mass Transportation is pushing to convert its > full fleet of intercity locomotives to zero emission by 2035. Caltrans is > helping the San Bernardino County Transportation Authority with their > purchase of trains as part of the Redlands Passenger Rail Project that will > function as a local commuter service and provide service into Los Angeles. > A hydrogen fuel cell train is to be rolled out in Sacramento, California, as > part of a $97m funding award from the US government that will...increase the > deficit. > I hope an accountant points out the advantage of overhead lines. Sincerely, > Lawrence Rhodes CaliforniaTaxpayer. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20241112/63b5be53/attachment.htm> > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20241114/3fd22994/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
