On one hand I didn't want to continue this offt thread or be accused of going against the evdl member voted-on charter that h2 fcv is verboten.
On the other hand, after reading the members' posts, I felt I had to post what I've seen since when h2 and fcvs were being touted as an alternative to an EV ... (so, ok here we go) On the threads responses, I disagree with Lee. Much like our society has become nose-blind of the antics of the leader.us, the public has become pollution-blind to all that the fossil fuel industry does that seriously harms mother-earth to the point of being irreparable damage until all humans are gone (like the way of the dinosaurs). The public are constantly bombarded by groups that do not believe in science, and but do believe in bringing back the profit$ of the ignorant past when an unregulated oil economy ruled.us Naysayers have reduced the warnings of permanent damage from fracking, the oil refineries' releases of petrol chemicals into the air, waters, and on our soils. All the talking-heads spew is CO2 ignorance. Much of the public just wants to tune-out that noise and look down at the hand-held internet devices (phones, tablets,+) like a mental-stress pacifier to distract them from dealing with the insanity of what is going on (ignorance is bliss attitudes). Lee's h2,fcv statement is an academic perspective, https://www.google.com/search?q=academic+vs+real+world not the real world (including all the realities of the pollution caused). If I were to say trillions of dollar$ were being made off of raising billions of puppies and kittens in squalid conditions just to be slaughtered, so that hydrogen could be only partially extracted, reformed from their ground up bodies, and what was left over was dumped into the air, water, &ground but never spoken of when the media mentions h2 nor fcvs ... ?Would that get the attention that the profit taking energy companies extracting, reforming from h2 from fossil sources, kills all benefits when looking at the world academically? I agree with Bill Dube's post. Show me the total pollution, energy use, cost$, etc. (the real world big picture realities). The L1 charging devotees simple (kiss) approach (there is an outlet just about everywhere you go) surely supports the insanity Cor had pointed-out of wasting millions of tax payer money on h2 fueling stations fossil companies will profit from. Willie's post points out how EVangels need to also stay informed of anti-EV forces,activities, etc. So as to provide information that counters the misinformation profit-taking fossil companies spew. At EVents (like National Drive Electric Week coming up in September, where EVs gather worldwide to keep the public EV informed), when asked about h2, fcvs, I provide the public with the pros & cons, and ask them to decide for themselves. I find the public like to make up their own minds but have not been given the tools to compare. Peri's post of wonderment of how this will develop is not recognizing energy (fossil fuel) companies have been pushing h2, fcvs long before the CARB mandate https://www.google.com/search?q=CARB+mandate+beginnings 1967's CARB slowly built pressure on automakers and fuel companies, but during the 1990s is when it reached an all out war fever pitch. fcvs of all kinds were diluting the attention away from EVs. Everything from fcvs carrying a huge water tank the owner would drop tablets into to create h2, then rid themselves of the spent (toilet bowl cleaner) waste solution, repeat ... to fcvs operating off methanol (made cheaply from natural gas but could be made from coal and other fossil sources) ... to fcvs with onboard reformers to extract h2 from gasoline (no on mentioned the dumping of the gunk left over after the h2 was partially removed). When GM did an about-face to their stated commitment to EV production at a SoCal CARB workshop, (I was there hearing the GM rep say they were just going to give away golf carts to meet the zev mandate), much of the fcv fervor subsided. But but TMC has always wanted fcvs, pushing hard for hevs, fcvs, (basically anything that self destructs, which is why TMC does not like EVs - there is far more profit by selling expensively-priced replacement parts). The above is only a whiff of the bad smell the energy and automaker companies had/have made to sell anything but EVs. All people have to do is dig through the history (except much of those past records were whitewashed or removed with money from said companies). When I started proving EVnews way back (1990) the media was not using the internet. (paper) auto trades, magazines, newspapers were my sources. little by little, the media moved into moving away from paper, and into using the internet. Today, is a different world compared to way back then, what was stated on paper could not be whitewashed or erased later. Now, million$ are spent to control & disseminate a huge amount of disinformation on EVs, or the promotion of h2, fcvs, etc. In the internets' early beginnings there were few usable search engines. Today there are several good ones I use in my EVnews EVLN searches: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/alternative-search-engines/271409/ google, bing, wiki, duckduckgo, yandex Each search engine has its own results, not only because of individual search algorithms, but filtering the site does according to their sponsor's wishes (oily$ influences results, etc.). Willie's Shell Eco-marathon link leads to another https://www.shell.com/make-the-future/shell-ecomarathbecause oon/challenger-events.html that shows Shell's efforts are multi national (around the world). It is not a conspiracy, it is just profit-taking capitalism (there is no law against Shell doing that). Lastly, the article link Lawrence posted, I EVLN posted that back in 2017: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4688406 Toyota admits ‘Elon Musk is right’ ... but moves forward with hydrogen anyway ... Oct 29, 2017 For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/archive/ {brucedp.neocities.org} -- Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/ _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
