Yes, my initial contract is net metering. $0.09 each direction. They want to pay less for what they receive - that is what they proposed this fall to the utility commission. They can change up on me as long as they got through channels.
They have another interesting trick. If I "bank" some power one month (paying only the minimum), that gets accumulated as a credit or it gets used up on a subsequent low sunlight month. But after the best sunny months in the spring, they zero the account at the end of May. Taking the bank for $0.00. This is ostensibly because I am not allowed to continue producing more power than I need, and them have to actually send me money. That would be a total no-no. On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > A Key misconception here. You say they charge $0.09 for electricity used, > and will only pay $0.02 for your generation. But that is NOT NET > METERING. Do not be confused. > > > > NET METERING means your meter runs forward and backward, Only adding and > subtracting kWh. > > If you use 10,000kWh per year AND your PV’s produce a total of 10,000 kWh > per year, your net utilty bill is ZERO (plus the $8 or so fixed cost per > month). (DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE ELECTRICTY COSTS)… > > > > SURE, if you OVER PRODUCE, beyond what you use in a year, then the utility > should only have to pay the $0.02 rate because that is how cheaply they can > get electricity from other sources and no reason to expect them to pay a > higher price to you. If you under produce, then you pay $0.09 per kWh as > always. > > > > One does not add PV solar on their house to be a NET energy producer. That > is direct competition to the utility.. No, you put solar on your roof to > reduce your NET electricity use from the utility to ZERO so you pay nothing > (except the monthly access fee which in my case is $8 a month for UNLIMITED > grid storage). > > > > If you are basing your economics on this misunderstanding of buying and > sellilng electricity (instead of NET metering) your economics are off by a > factor of 5 to 1. > > > > Bob, WB4APR > > > > *From:* Michael Ross [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 23, 2014 10:19 AM > *To:* Robert Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [EVDL] OT: batteries for solar PV off-grid (cost 10, 000 > times more) > > > > You are quite right Robert. Presently, the grid is a better deal than > storage. How much PV is "worth" is another item entirely. > > > > At my home, I have used the best possible location for PV. Trees have to > come down (and not all of them mine) to get good sun. > > > > Tax credits have to be available AND I have to have enough tax liability to > use them. (PV is still to expensive to own without the subsidies (I am > happy to get those given how freely they are usually distributed to > corporate entities). > > > > Duke Progress can't be counted on to pay a fair price for the power I would > store if I had more PV. They have have floated the idea that I/we should > pay $0.09/kWh when buying power, but they will only pay $0.02 /kWh when I > make it. I do pay just under $20 a month when I use no power of theirs at > all; supposedly to support the electrical service. It isn't in the cost of > a kWh apparently. They say by having more power generation, but no extra > paid in for grid service, that I/we are putting the cost of grid service > onto all the poor folks that can't afford PV. I think this is > money-grubbing and PR, but that is the track they took last year. > > > > I pretty much can't justify the unsubsidized PV. In the first sentence I > said "presently." I think that holds for all these things. > > > > I have reached my goal to reduce our utility expense as much as we > reasonably can,,and we contribute some non-use of un-green power. > > I really like it that we contribute less to the mutli-million dollar > salaries and fine offices, and that my power generation is nearly > maintenance free for decades to come. I am grateful that the fed and the > state saw fit to make this possible. The utility company would not have > supported it . They simply want nothing to succeed that they don't have > firmly under their control. > > > > It is about the best we can do at this time. > > > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected] > > > wrote: > > > A 20-year T-bill right now is only paying about 2.5%... > > Even if it takes 20 years to pay off the battery system... > > Batteries are not a source of energy. They produce nothing. Solar panels > do. Far better to spend X dollars available for more solar panels which > pay off themselves in about 3 years and use the nearly free storage in the > grid. > > Self-storage (if you have access to the grid) consumes $2 out of every $3 > invested in Solar with zero benefit other than about 4 hours of backup > electricity a year (around here with a 99.96% reliable grid). That's > spending several thousands of dollars for about 60 cents worth of > electricity. > > If you don't have the grid, then sure, on-site storage is required. > > Oh, my zero-usage electric bill is an $8 fixed rate "meter" fee per > month, or $100 a year. That is renting a 10,000 kWh storage system (the > grid). Or about 100 kWh per dollar. Compare that with the 0.01 kWh per > dollar for batteries. > > A 10,000 times better deal if there ever was one. > > Bob, WB4APR > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > -- > > Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain > happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? > > *Dalai Lama* > > > > Tell me what it is you plan to do > > With your one wild and precious life? > > Mary Oliver, "The summer day." > > > > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. > > *Thomas A. Edison > <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html>* > > > > A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. > > *Warren Buffet* > > > > Michael E. Ross > > (919) 550-2430 Land > > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google > Phone > > (919) 631-1451 Cell > (919) 513-0418 Desk > > [email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141223/e60df498/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, "The summer day." To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk [email protected] <[email protected]> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141223/efb3101b/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
