Thanks for the "heads up", John. Yes, we make every effort to avoid politics and focus on engineering, but sometimes politics doesn't avoid us. 😫
Possible silver lining - more job openings for product safety / regulatory engineers? 🤔 Or even raises?? 😲 Best regards, John McBain On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 10:35 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Folks > > > > Don’t count 100% on there being no more EU exits if – and I’m quite > serious – more extreme Right Wing politicians get into power in their > respective member countries as quite a few of them are very nationalistic > and anti-EU! > > > > NB: that is NOT meant in any way to be a “politically-biased comment”, > just an observation on what is actually going on in some member countries > across the EU ! > > > > John E Allen > > W. London, UK. > > > > *From:* Glyn Payne <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 09 November 2022 17:51 > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Intertek message FYI: Important Update: Pending > Regulatory Change to UKCA Program > > > > Hi John, > > > > Fingers crossed there will be no more EU exits, though it would make > producing safety guides in all EU languages a bit easier! > > > > All the best, > > > > > > Glyn > > > > *From:* John Mcbain <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 08 November 2022 21:08 > *To:* Glyn Payne <[email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Intertek message FYI: Important Update: Pending > Regulatory Change to UKCA Program > > > > Hi Glyn - > > > > Thanks for your comments! I understand that each EU country implements > the EU regulations for itself, although homogeneous application is expected > (after the discussion and voting you mentioned). > > > > However, as I said in my previous message, I was selfishly looking only at > the additional product regulatory work for me, if every country in the EU > decided to follow the example of the UK and implement separate national > regulations, marking and documentation instead of the uniform CE Marking > and Declaration of Conformity. > > > > I am not particularly interested in sovereignty, but I am interested > (dismayed, actually) at the thought of doing 10 times more work with the > same resources and absolutely no value added. > > > Best regards, > > John McBain > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 9:00 AM Glyn Payne <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi John, > > > > “I would hate to see the other countries in the EU decide to seize > national sovereignty and implement their own regulations,” > > > > Good point, however the Sovereignty bit was always a red herring since any > Directive issued by the EU is already agreed by the Commission, who are the > member governments, so the UK Government would be party to any Directive in > the first place. The Commissions Directive is then voted on by the MEPs, > which of course included elected UK MEPs, and if passed then the Directive > is issued to all member states for them to implement in a way that is > compatible with their Sovereign Laws. > > > > In the UK’s case, before a Directive became UK Law it was scrutinised and > voted on by UK MPs, then scrutinised and voted on by the House of Lords, > before it ultimately becomes part of UK Sovereign Law. No EU Directive > could ever be imposed in individual sovereign governments without the > agreement of their Parliaments. > > > > All the best, > > > > > > Glyn Payne. > > > > *From:* John Mcbain <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 07 November 2022 22:08 > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Intertek message FYI: Important Update: Pending > Regulatory Change to UKCA Program > > > > My apologies to everyone - I did not intend to drift into a political > discussion! My question was meant to be focused on the product safety / > regulatory concerns that arose after Brexit (that is, ones that did not > previously exist), NOT whether sovereignty is good or bad in any other way. > > > > From just that single-minded perspective I found in my own job that Brexit > created more work without adding an iota of value to the product. Also > from that selfish point-of-view I would hate to see the other countries in > the EU decide to seize national sovereignty and implement their own > regulations, their own markings and their own paperwork. > > 😖 > > In other words from the narrow product safety / regulatory position (which > is how I was looking at it), "encouraging [the UK] to exit from the EU" did > the OPPOSITE of the "removal of unnecessary trade barriers". It may or may > not have had other beneficial results - a political argument for which this > is NOT the forum - but for me it just meant more paperwork that previously > had not existed. > > > > Along the same lines in the US - the National Electric Code (NEC) is a > guide for the thousands of Authorities Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) within the > country - in other words "sovereignty" within their city / county / state - > to decide what applies to their bailiwick. Does this make life easier for > those trying to build or install a product if the standards vary across the > country? Certainly not! > > > > Which of course is one reason why UL / Intertek / CSA / other NRTLs have > been successful. But that is another discussion. > > > Best regards, > > John McBain > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 11:18 AM Lfresearch <[email protected]> wrote: > > Easy John, but first address my key issue with the EU: surrender of > sovereignty. Period. > > > > Second, EU is not the only trading market, something missed by members of > the community. It’s a fact the CE mark adds way more cost than the return > on investment of performance improvement. Not having to do this simplifies > the route to market compliance and hence makes the product cheaper. > > > > I could go on, but I have to teach today, I’d be happy to resume the > discussion later. > > > > BUT, reemphasize my first point: surrender of sovereignty. Period. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Derek. > > > > > > On Nov 7, 2022, at 1:04 PM, John Mcbain <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hello Lfresearch - > > > > Would you please explain to me how you reconcile "removal of unnecessary > trade barriers" and "encouraging for England [*note: actually UK*] to > exit from the EU"? > > Those views seem to be mutually incompatible, since Brexit has raised new > non-tariff trade barriers (additional certifications, markings, etc.). > > > Best regards, > > John McBain > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 10:14 AM Lfresearch < > [email protected]> wrote: > > I think most people have learned to not listen to MSM, but rely on > individuals in groups like this to further knowledge. It’s highly > beneficial to have working members, most without a dog in the fight, in > multiple economic zones. > > > > That said, and to counterpoint a different position, I was originally in > favor of England joining the EU many years ago since the idea of removing > barriers to free trade is highly appealing. > > > > HOWEVER, what has transpired while populations have been asleep at the > wheel is nothing other than a power grab of sovereignty: Totally > unacceptable and it was highly encouraging for England to exit from the EU > and I hope other will follow. I have a hope that the UK and the rest of the > world can work toward the removal of unnecessary trade barriers and > standardization. Something I devote many hours a day promoting. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Derek. > > > > On Nov 7, 2022, at 11:45 AM, Doug Powell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Thanks John, > > > > As you can imagine mainstream media tends to give us a filtered view, > with various unspoken motivations. This is the very reason I do not rely > upon a single source. And of course, guidance provided on > https://www.gov.uk should always be viewed in its official capacity. > > > > I appreciate your insider's perspective, -Doug > > > > > > Douglas E Powell > > Laporte, Colorado USA > > LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/coloradocomplianceguy/> > > > > (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT) > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 9:58 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Doug & co > > > > I can only speak for myself and what I have seen & heard in the mainstream > broadcast media (don’t do Twitter, FB etc!). > > > > The majority viewpoint seems to be that it is far too late to do anything > in the short-medium term about re-joining the EU, even if there was another > referendum on the subject that said “Yes, Rejoin”. None of the main-stream > political parties are pushing for it *(at least those in England, but > there are very different views held by some parties in Wales, N. Ireland > and especially the SNP in Scotland!).* > > > > Thus I can’t see it happening “anytime soon”, if at all! > > > > FWIW: To state my personal perspective, I was very much in favour of the > UK joining in the first place many years ago because of my experiences of > the many “technical barriers to trade” which made exporting to the then > (IIRC!) Common Market countries really difficult due to all the differences > between them. Then, in the Referendum I was very much in favour of > Remaining in the EC & very disappointed in the (marginal!) result *(my > opinion of those who voted to leave was/still is fairly unprintable – > something about “cutting off your nose to spite your face”!)* > > > > John E Allen > > W. London, UK > > *From:* Doug Powell <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 07 November 2022 16:15 > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] FW: Intertek message FYI: Important Update: Pending > Regulatory Change to UKCA Program > > > > I've been watching the latest UK news with interest. From my perspective > in the US news media, it seems with the financial, energy, and PM woes, > there is a small movement discussing how BREXIT may have been a mistake. > Possibly John Allen can elaborate about how the locals feel about this, Is > there any real possibility of reverting to EU membership, or not? > > > > thanks, -Doug > > > > > > Douglas E Powell > > Laporte, Colorado USA > > LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/coloradocomplianceguy/> > > > > (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT) > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 8:53 AM Richard Georgerian < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Greetings all, > > > > As a follow-up to John Allen’s email below – > > > > Has the UK submitted and/or passed any legislation for the UKCA labelling > easement until December 31, 2025? Otherwise, the UKCA labelling starts on > December 31, 2022. > > I went to the www.gov.uk website and there is no mention of the specific > legislation. Just the announcement that the UK *intends to submit* > legislation for the easement. > > > > Thank-you, > > > > …Richard Georgerian > > Compliance Engineer > > HID Global > > > > *From:* John E Allen <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 4, 2022 9:01 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [PSES] FW: Intertek message FYI: Important Update: Pending > Regulatory Change to UKCA Program > > > > For anyone who has not seen this or something similar! > > > > John E Allen > > W.London, UK > > > > *From:* Intertek <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 03 August 2022 12:58 > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Important Update: Pending Regulatory Change to UKCA Program > > > > The UK Government has announced its intention to introduce new regulation > as a principle ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ > > > > > > [image: Intertek] > <http://links.intertek.mkt4245.com/els/v2/pwaLHKk2DmCr/WFpETTVWYjJqaDhRL3kwZmJzejB4VE05NlQwVlBlNUtvRGx0dDVOaWNGZ0RZYmtrdCtybytMRVJxb0UwWVhzRnBkaWZROWJwcnJiU1BjTWdxc0J4MDduTUxhQWx0R1k2d2c1TTNWR2ZSMFE9S0/b3grNmY2R3BIM2RhZ1VheDBwYlVydUt2VjRQV3piYUtiOHgvbTNvSGIyd3g0eVQrVEVMbEtJWElxS0V0U2lZNjZveVQzQTFUSjF3YjZnaWhyNDNLR2E5b0dZUFduUFgvZGhlQVZBLzM1YncxYVY1TE8zcU5EVitsbnRmMGNBMDBEUENMaE9QTmVudmhvM1Q1MXJrcmZQZkR1MkZtRXo2bU1wVVgrWTlIVFY0PQS2> > > [image: Total Quality. Assured.] > > > > > > *The UK is pending a regulatory change to their UKCA Program* > > > > > > The UK Government has announced its intention to introduce new regulation > as a principle so to reduce the costs involved for the > re-certification/re-testing of products for UKCA marking. This new > regulation, when introduced (no timelines given), and based on the summary > notice criteria, will effectively increase the acceptance of CE marking of > products as a means of meeting UKCA marking requirements. > > > > > > > > > > *Until this new regulation is introduced, the current framework, timelines > and conformity assessment process for UKCA marking remains, in that from 01 > January 2023, CE marking will no longer be accepted when placing product > onto the Great Britain Market.* > > > > > > > > > > The full details of the UK Government announcement can be found here > <http://links.intertek.mkt4245.com/els/v2/K6~VJWdr~zQZ/WFpETTVWYjJqaDhRL3kwZmJzejB4VE05NlQwVlBlNUtvRGx0dDVOaWNGZ0RZYmtrdCtybytMRVJxb0UwWVhzRnBkaWZROWJwcnJiU1BjTWdxc0J4MDduTUxhQWx0R1k2d2c1TTNWR2ZSMFE9S0/>. > Please refer to the 22 June update. > > > > > > *READ THE UPDATE* > <http://links.intertek.mkt4245.com/els/v2/_k~8BzWqA_QR/WFpETTVWYjJqaDhRL3kwZmJzejB4VE05NlQwVlBlNUtvRGx0dDVOaWNGZ0RZYmtrdCtybytMRVJxb0UwWVhzRnBkaWZROWJwcnJiU1BjTWdxc0J4MDduTUxhQWx0R1k2d2c1TTNWR2ZSMFE9S0/> > > > > > > > > > > > > *On Introduction of The New Regulation* > > > > > > In summary, product conformity assessment will see the following changes: > > > > - Completed conformity assessment activities carried out on product > under EU requirements (including existing testing, certification, and > contractual arrangements relating to the quality control or auditing of > existing certificates) undertaken by non-UK conformity assessment bodies > (EU Notified Bodies accredited by their national accreditation body) for CE > certification before 1 January 2023 to be used by manufacturers to declare > existing product types as compliant with UKCA. > - Products must still bear UKCA marking and will need to undergo > conformity assessment with a UK Approved Body at the expiry of the > certificate or after 5 years (31 December 2027), whichever is sooner. > - Manufacturers to apply the UKCA mark without the need for any > UK-recognised CAB involvement and continue to place their goods on the > market, on the basis of their existing CE type examination completed before > 31 December 2022, for the lifetime of the certificate issued, or until 31 > December 2027 (whichever is sooner). > - Conformity assessment procedures not completed and supported by a CE > certificate issued before 1 January 2023, these products are considered > ‘new’ products. This also includes where goods are subject to important > changes, overhauling its original performance, purpose, or type requiring > new certification. Any ‘new’ good must comply with GB regulatory > requirements, including the requirement for conformity assessment by a UK > approved body from 1 January 2023. > > > > > > > > The new legislation when introduced concerning UKCA marking effect only > the following UK Regulations: > > > > - Noise Emission in the Environment by Equipment for Outdoor Use > Regulations 2001 > - Supply of Machinery (Safety) Regulations 2008 > Ecodesign for Energy-Related Products Regulations 2010 > - Toys (Safety) Regulations 2011 > - Explosives Regulations 2014 > - Pyrotechnic Articles (Safety) Regulations 2015 > - Electromagnetic Compatibility Regulations 2016 > - Simple Pressure Vessels (Safety) Regulations 2016 > - Lifts Regulations 2016 > - Pressure Equipment (Safety) Regulations 2016 > - Equipment and Protective Systems Intended for Use in Potentially > Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2016 > - Non-automatic Weighing Instruments Regulations 2016 > - Measuring Instruments Regulations 2016 > - Recreational Craft Regulations 2017 > - Radio Equipment Regulations 2017 > - Regulation 2016/425 on personal protective equipment as it applies > in GB > - Regulation 2016/426 on gas appliances as it applies in GB > > > > > > > > > > [image: Globe Icon] > > *Our Address* > > Intertek > Day Ave > Knowlhill > Milton Keynes > MK5 8NL > > [image: img] > > *Urgent Testing Need?* > > Contact us today at: > *AMER: *+1 800 WORLDLAB or +1 251 459 6173 > *EMEA: *+44 116 296 1620 > *APAC: *+852 2173 8888 > > > > > > > > intertek.com > <http://links.intertek.mkt4245.com/els/v2/DA3KfDPEaqQb/WFpETTVWYjJqaDhRL3kwZmJzejB4VE05NlQwVlBlNUtvRGx0dDVOaWNGZ0RZYmtrdCtybytMRVJxb0UwWVhzRnBkaWZROWJwcnJiU1BjTWdxc0J4MDduTUxhQWx0R1k2d2c1TTNWR2ZSMFE9S0/b3grNmY2R3BIM2RhZ1VheDBwYlVydUt2VjRQV3piYUtiOHgvbTNvSGIyd3g0eVQrVEVMbEtJWElxS0V0U2lZNjZveVQzQTFUSjF3YjZnaWhyNDNLR2E5b0dZUFduUFgvZGhlQVZBLzM1YncxYVY1TE8zcU5EVitsbnRmMGNBMDBEUENMaE9QTmVudmhvM1Q1MXJrcmZQZkR1MkZtRXo2bU1wVVgrWTlIVFY0PQS2> > > > > Privacy Policy > <http://links.intertek.mkt4245.com/els/v2/3Yz6H9aXD7Sg/WFpETTVWYjJqaDhRL3kwZmJzejB4VE05NlQwVlBlNUtvRGx0dDVOaWNGZ0RZYmtrdCtybytMRVJxb0UwWVhzRnBkaWZROWJwcnJiU1BjTWdxc0J4MDduTUxhQWx0R1k2d2c1TTNWR2ZSMFE9S0/b3grNmY2R3BIM2RhZ1VheDBwYlVydUt2VjRQV3piYUtiOHgvbTNvSGIyd3g0eVQrVEVMbEtJWElxS0V0U2lZNjZveVQzQTFUSjF3YjZnaWhyNDNLR2E5b0dZUFduUFgvZGhlQVZBLzM1YncxYVY1TE8zcU5EVitsbnRmMGNBMDBEUENMaE9QTmVudmhvM1Q1MXJrcmZQZkR1MkZtRXo2bU1wVVgrWTlIVFY0PQS2> > | Opt out of all communications > <https://e1.intertek.com/ic-optout/default?spMailingID=27103363&spUserID=MTkxNDM3Mjc5NTQwS0&spJobID=MjI0NDUzOTA1MQS2&spReportId=MjI0NDUzOTA1MQS2> > > > > > > > > *This email was sent to **[email protected]* > <[email protected]>*.* > > > <http://links.intertek.mkt4245.com/els/v2/89g4FVm4_ZtY/WFpETTVWYjJqaDhRL3kwZmJzejB4VE05NlQwVlBlNUtvRGx0dDVOaWNGZ0RZYmtrdCtybytMRVJxb0UwWVhzRnBkaWZROWJwcnJiU1BjTWdxc0J4MDduTUxhQWx0R1k2d2c1TTNWR2ZSMFE9S0/b3grNmY2R3BIM2RhZ1VheDBwYlVydUt2VjRQV3piYUtiOHgvbTNvSGIyd3g0eVQrVEVMbEtJWElxS0V0U2lZNjZveVQzQTFUSjF3YjZnaWhyNDNLR2E5b0dZUFduUFgvZGhlQVZBLzM1YncxYVY1TE8zcU5EVitsbnRmMGNBMDBEUENMaE9QTmVudmhvM1Q1MXJrcmZQZkR1MkZtRXo2bU1wVVgrWTlIVFY0PQS2> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. 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