I don't think we need any convincing; everything I've heard from the devs is that we need to do this. It's just a matter of figuring out a common way of doing it.
Craig, a relatively small/new project that could use testing is the new Scratch or even the new work going on with Contractor. Both are (from what I understand) fresh codebases and now might be the time to work on tests. I recommend you hop into #elementary-dev and work with the devs on getting some tests worked out. Regards, Cassidy On Apr 26, 2013 11:04 AM, "Pál Dorogi" <[email protected]> wrote: > I dunno, I am a newbie here. > > On 26 April 2013 22:24, Craig <[email protected]> wrote: > > That's exactly what I'd like to know: how can I help. I can try and post > > some tutorials, but I'd like to know who is interested and what the > > development community already knows. > > > > On Apr 26, 2013 6:39 AM, "Pál Dorogi" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Craig, > >> > >> I agree 100% /w you, but I think you should write some tutorials and > >> post them in your blog, if you have any. But in my opinion that the > >> human beings do not like "re-learn" things and the real OOP, Design > >> Patterns, SOLID, TDD etc. etc. are very steep and time for a non-real > >> OOP/DP experienced Programmer/Developer. > >> Also, the learning curve is very steep for these advanced stuffs and > >> needs long time to get there. But, nobody would not know how good are > >> they until haven't learnt and used those stuffs, would they?.:) > >> > >> I did sine similar things, getting some new fresh things (TDD, > >> MvvM/Presentation Model Design Pattern) to programming in Vala > >> > >> (( > http://ilapstech.blogspot.com/2013/04/advanced-programming-in-vala-dafs.html > ) > >> but you should keep in mind that this kind of new things (TDD, DP, > >> SOLDI, MVVM etc. etc.) are like evolution (evolution in Programming) > >> which needs some time to get it succeeded (or failed).:) > >> > >> On 26 April 2013 20:36, Craig <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Hello everyone, > >> > > >> > I'm just leaving San Jose after having spent a week listening to a lot > >> > of > >> > smart people talk about, among other things, Test Driven Development > >> > (TDD). > >> > I know I keep harping on this, but among the people who write the > >> > coolest, > >> > best software (and other average software folks) TDD is seen as > >> > absolutely > >> > critical. I can't point to anything other discipline in the software > >> > world > >> > that is of comparable importance. And here's why: > >> > > >> > When we start writing software, we can manage it with a couple of > >> > developers, perhaps all the way up through the first release; however, > >> > as we > >> > add features, our software becomes more complex. It's hard for us to > >> > remember what parts of our programs worked well before and what parts > >> > are > >> > broken. We often make changes to the underlying architecture to > >> > facilitate a > >> > new feature, but we're not exactly sure if in doing so, we broke an > >> > existing > >> > feature. And we'll of course do a little ad hoc manual testing to > verify > >> > that things still work, but we're only going to really check 5-10% of > >> > the > >> > code that we most suspect would break. And even if we do power > through, > >> > we're only going to ever check 60-70% of the code, and it's all a very > >> > slow, > >> > unreliable process. Soon we spend all of our time fighting bugs and we > >> > can > >> > never get around to any interesting work. Does this pattern sound > >> > familiar? > >> > > >> > With TDD, you write a simple, small test for every piece of > interesting > >> > code > >> > you write, and every time you rebuild the project, all of your old > tests > >> > run. If you're writing good tests, you can be assured that all of your > >> > code > >> > works as you intend it to every single time you build, and if someone > >> > merges > >> > in a bug, it will be caught immediately (and the test that fails will > >> > give > >> > you some good information about what broke/where the bug is hiding). > >> > > >> > Of course, it takes time to write tests; however, it's still much less > >> > time > >> > than you would spend debugging your code. Furthermore, when you write > >> > tests > >> > before you write your production code, you are forced to design your > >> > code > >> > modularly just to make it testable. Among software professionals, TDD > is > >> > seen as the fastest way to write software. I mean, Luna has been 90% > >> > complete for 90% of its development cycle, and this is a common > pattern > >> > in > >> > the software world. > >> > > >> > With all of this in mind, I'd like to know how I can help you guys > start > >> > practicing TDD? If this hasn't persuaded you, I'd appreciate it if you > >> > would > >> > respond and give your perspective so we can talk about it. I'm very > >> > interested in seeing you guys continue to put out great software, but > >> > I'm > >> > concerned that as you write more code, you're going to be creating > more > >> > for > >> > yourselves to maintain and the amount of time you spend writing new > >> > software > >> > is going to drop off exponentially as the complexity (as complexity > >> > produces > >> > bugs) increases. > >> > > >> > Please let me know if/how I can help you. > >> > > >> > Craig > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > >> > Post to : [email protected] > >> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > >> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >> > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : [email protected] > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >
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