Did I say that women shouldn't be working in this field? No I didn't. I knew folks would get a "tude" and twist what I said. Further, I said it could happen to either sex. I have just seen, from personal experience, it happen primarily with women. I have never seen a male quit a project because of marriage or pregnancy. I have seen men quit projects for other reasons that made less sense. I also figured everyone would know that I was excluding unintended situations. But again y'all have to knit pick every possible scenario that misses my original points. "Advisors who do not make room for the needs of a new mother and baby are problematic in my view" could easily be flipped to say "Field techs and grad students who don't take their research seriously are problematic in my view." There are two or more sides to everything. There is extreme competition for field positions and when someone is not serious or doesn't plan well it can mess things up for the researcher, the research and the other folks who need work in this field. That is all I am saying. My post was not addressing the original post but an issue related to the original post that I have seen in my experience. It is about doing good and correct science not anyone's personal issues or sex. It is like Bill Maher always says "I am not sexist. I am not lambasting Sarah Palin because she is a woman but because she is stupid." Good day.
Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Kerns, Becky -FS To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant? I was wondering when this point would be made. Maybe we should not even open these jobs to women! And I thought we were making progress. Becky Becky K. Kerns, Ph.D., Team Leader/Research Ecologist Ecosystem Dynamics and Environmental Change Threat Characterization and Management Program, PNW Research Station 3200 SW Jefferson Way, Corvallis, OR 97331 541.750.7497 -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael E. Welker Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 11:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant? I think that the issue is PLANNING. So science should be compromised because of your desire to have children? Slightly different twist to the discussion but ..... if you are doing a field project you should plan on being there for your committed time frame i.e. don't get pregnant. I have taken over work on a couple of field projects because the woman had to leave for similar reasons i.e. getting married and/or pregnant. That is problematic in terms of down time to get a new field tech = missed data. Also field techniques maybe altered due to new person thus data could be compromised. There are other issues here that need to be considered as well. For instance, taking a position from others and then backing out for personal reasons midway through the project. This could happen for both sexes but have seen it almost exclusively with women in the US. Just another thought. Mike Welker El Paso, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Silvia Secchi To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant? Actually, I think the real issue is who is advising Simone to do this and thinks it is a good idea. My PhD and postodoctoral advisers had kids and were realistic in terms of their expectations. Now that I am on the other side, I try to do the same with my students and postdocs. At three months, you could have a colicky baby or still be recovering from a c-section. Advisers who do not make room for the needs of a new mother and baby are problematic in my view - then again, I am probably biased because I am Italian, and in Europe maternity leaves are serious business. Silvia -- Silvia Secchi Assistant Professor, Energy and Environmental Policy, Department of Agribusiness Economics Co-Director, Environmental Resources & Policy Ph.D. Program Agriculture Building - Mailcode 4410 Southern Illinois University 1205 Lincoln Drive Carbondale, Illinois 62901 Phone:(618)453-1714 Fax: (618)453-1708 Vous avez beau ne pas vous occuper de politique, la politique s'occupe de vous tout de même. Charles Forbes de Montalembert The way we organize the modern American university fragments our knowledge badly. Not only are we divided by discipline, but we are divided by the methods that scholars use. Elinor Ostrom This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.
