This has been a really good discussion - parents have to make these kinds of decisions all the time and there are no easy answers or right or wrong pathways. What I see as a central issue are the expectations for performance we have of ourselves, and what is drilled into our heads by many advisors, colleagues, supervisors, leadership, institutions, agencies, granting bodies, etc. These expectations are based on out-moded models of what it is possible to achieve - e.g. achievement and performance largely based on the values where everyone is supposed to be a workaholic, were work is your whole life and other values have no priority. Then there is the issue that adequate funding to actually do quality research is getting scarcer and scarcer. We lose excellent people all the time because of these completely outdated models - and much of these expectations might be entirely internally driven. But you cannot do it all and have it all. The people who argue that you can are most likely either deluding themselves on some level or they have had a highly unusual experience.
Good luck Simone, whatever you decide and however it works out, I hope that you have the support of your family, friends and colleagues. And good luck finding good inexpensive childcare in this country.... Becky Becky K. Kerns, Ph.D., Team Leader/Research Ecologist Ecosystem Dynamics and Environmental Change Threat Characterization and Management Program, PNW Research Station 3200 SW Jefferson Way, Corvallis, OR 97331 541.750.7497 -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Claudia Ford Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 8:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant? Thank you David for the perspective of a father, I wrote to Simone off line with practical suggestions, but there may be others contemplating the same issues so I repeat. I towed four children around to global field sites (some pretty challenging) with me as a single mom, for thirty years. It was a challenge, but also mostly good for me, my colleagues, and my (not resentful and incredibly grateful adults) children. If the infant is healthy, and, for moms, breastfeeding, then the issues are not insurmountable. Strap the infant as close to your body as possible with as few layers in between as you can manage. That will ensure their heat except for the head where a light wool cap should be easy to find. Use a size or so larger of your own outer gear to cover you both. Carry a tarp or fold-able quick-set-up tent for those times when you have to take a break and need a rude shelter if you are too far from a usable vehicle. Don't expect that your colleagues should make allowances (like slowing down or taking a break or holding something), but be prepared to be surprised that some will be more than eager and happy to do so. My strategy was that I never thought that my children (or me) were more fragile than the children of the host country I was a guest in. True, there were a few things that my hosts' children were exposed to and that I maintained the privilege of not having to expose my own children to. But I maintained that level of safety and protection was a privilege. Most importantly It remains a choice on whether, when, and how to combine children and career, and I commend and explicitly encourage Simone for wanting to explore her options and being willing to seek help to do so. Claudia On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 11:29 PM, David M. Lawrence <[email protected]> wrote: > I wonder if we can redirect this discussion to the task at hand -- how > to find a workable solution rather than point out all the potential > flaws in Simone's plans? > > We were taking my son on hikes in the mountains of New Jersey and > upstate New York when his neck muscles were strong enough. He was > probably older than three months then, but he couldn't have been much older > than six. > > This problem doesn't just affect mothers -- it affects fathers who > choose to make similar sacrifices that women make. I took my son to > his first class at Columbia when he was two weeks old. A few months > later, my son and I were kicked out of a class we were in -- with the > instructors permission -- by a fool dean who felt children did not belong at > college. > The problem with his backward thinking was that I started going to > college my dad when I was eight or so. I consider myself empirical > refutation of the dean's hypothesis. (My son and I smiled at the > grimacing dean as we walked across the graduation stage together the > next year.) > > In other misadventures with my son, I had to change a poopy diaper > while interviewing James Hansen in his GISS office about his work on > climate change. It wasn't one of my favorite memories, but Hansen (a > father > himself) was quite gracious about it. > > In our hiking adventures, my son survived cold, hot, wet, and dry > conditions. Some days were bad, some days were good -- but we had > roughly the same split of good vs. bad days in our climate-controlled home. > > The problem isn't Simone trying to figure out how to balance fieldwork > and family life -- the problem is the rest of us who throw unnecessary > obstacles in her way. Our thinking needs to change, not hers. > Personally, I know she'll have to be realistic about how much work she > can do with a short person in tow. It won't be as much as she thinks, > but it will be a lot more than some other folks think. She'll have to > be realistic about certain risks, like sun exposure and insects -- and > maybe even bears -- but let's consider one irrefutable fact: our > ancestors endured far worse conditions (with infants!) that she ever > will, and our species survived just fine. > > So, can we focus on practical answers to her original question? > > Dave > > > On 4/8/2012 9:59 PM, Clara B. Jones wrote: > >> 1. Simone: I commend you for reaching out to your peers for feedback. >> As a graduate student, I would not have been able to be so vulnerable >> or to make such a healthy choice. >> 2. I have had a fair amount of experience with babies& children in >> field >> >> conditions. >> 3. I camped in the (deep) VT wilderness with a 4-day old (Dartmouth >> Outing Club). Bears were attracted to the tent,& I speculated that >> they were >> >> attracted by the baby's scent(s). This idea, while plausible, is pure >> speculation. >> 4. Many decisions made by caretakers carry risks. Be aware of what >> risks obtain under your conditions, and decide whether the potential >> costs are able to be minimized and whether they are >> costs/disadvantages you are prepared to assume. >> 5. I think that Malcolm is correct to remind you that you are >> incurring risks--for you and your baby; however, babies are more >> robust and resilient than his comments would suggest. >> 6. What interests me...and concerns me...about your case is the very >> significant lengths some females choose to go to achieve their goals >> and, sometimes, their dreams. For more than a decade, I have been >> interacting formally& informally with young academic females >> (American)--both >> >> heterosexual and homosexual--and, for those wanting a committed >> family life (however defined), there are, quite simply, no easy >> answers. >> 7. In my experience, the combination of serious research science >> career + family life is challenging even for females who are independently >> wealthy. >> 8. Whatever the tradeoffs, tactics,& strategies chosen, in my >> experience, >> >> most (American) females wanting a competitive scientific research >> career have to manage guilt; sometimes, shame; expectations& social >> pressures of >> >> various sorts (e.g., Malcolm's well-intentioned response); research >> output that may be considered compromised if not sub-par; undue, and, >> often, self-imposed, stress, etc., etc. >> 9. It is my personal opinion that the major disadvantage for females >> in research science careers concerns how to arrange UNDIVIDED, >> UNINTERRUPTED, FOCUSED TIME...sometimes, for protracted&/or unpredictable >> periods. >> >> 10. My own "solution" was to surrender custody of my children; >> however, I am not recommending this choice to anyone else and know, >> from personal experience, that this decision is one that most females >> are averse to thinking about. >> 11. May I suggest that you read Francoise Giroud's biography of Marie >> Curie (available @ amazon.com)? >> 12. Francoise Giroud's autobiography, *I Give You My Word*, will >> introduce you to the type of woman (not, in this case, a research >> scientist) who loses a child and shows up on time the next day >> without appearing to "skip a beat". I read this book when I was an >> early grad student, and it permanently changed my life...long story. >> 12. There is rather general agreement among female research >> scientists that theory (modeling, statistics, etc.) or bioinformatics >> (tekkie) concentrations are more forgiving of the realities of the >> sorts of choices some females elect (e.g., caregiving, committed >> partnership) than, say, fieldwork or bench-work. >> 13. all best...I hope you can find a way to make it all work out to >> your satisfaction...clara >> >> p.s. As a final *opinion *to listserv readers; I consider it, >> possibly, irresponsible for major professors, mentors, parents, etc. >> NOT to advise female graduate students of the disadvantages >> associated with certain personal choices (marriage, motherhood) IF >> they desire competitive research careers. >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: malcolm >> McCallum<malcolm.mccallum@**herpconbio.org<malcolm.mccallum@herpconbi >> o.org> >> > >> Date: Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant? >> To: [email protected] >> >> >> Simone, >> >> I am not criticizing or anything, but I would not bring an 3 mo old >> infant into a situation like this. >> There are just so many things that can happen and you are so far from >> any medical help. >> I know a lot of people do it but I would strongly advise against it. >> Not only is it a much higher risk for the infant than an adult, or >> even a child, it also creates a higher risk for yourself. >> >> 3 mo olds are very delicate. >> Consider this, if something happened and the child got hurt seriously >> or even died, can you imagine the field day the press would have with >> it? I can imagine some stories that could portray you in a much >> different light than the loving caring parent you almost certainly >> are. >> >> Malcolm >> >> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 11:56 AM, David M. Lawrence<[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> A good backpack carrier is worth its weight in gold -- especially >>> one >>> >> with a >> >>> clip-on diaper bag. Just take some extra plastic bags to wrap the >>> diapers in. >>> >>> Here's a photo of me with a rig and a twerp 15 years ago: >>> http://flic.kr/p/b6g6Lp >>> >>> Later, >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On 4/8/2012 12:03 PM, Simone S. Whitecloud wrote: >>> >>>> I'd love to pick up some pointers on how to bring my 3 month old >>>> into the field. I work in the alpine zone, so cool temperatures, >>>> wind and rain are the issue. Any favorite gear items you found >>>> helpful? I'm already finding she is totally soaked by the time we >>>> get to the peak from my own sweat. >>>> Know >>>> where to buy wool onesies? Tips on packing out dirty diapers? >>>> >>>> Thanks for your input, >>>> Simone Whitecloud >>>> PhD Candidate, McPeek Lab >>>> Dartmouth College >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------**------------------------ >>> David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 >>> 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 >>> Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [email protected] >>> USA | http: http://fuzzo.com >>> ------------------------------**------------------------ >>> >>> "All drains lead to the ocean." -- Gill, Finding Nemo >>> >>> "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo >>> >>> "No trespassing >>> 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan >>> >> >> >> -- >> Malcolm L. McCallum >> Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry School of Biological >> Sciences University of Missouri at Kansas City >> >> Managing Editor, >> Herpetological Conservation and Biology >> >> "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - >> Allan Nation >> >> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert >> 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, >> and pollution. >> 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction >> MAY help restore populations. >> 2022: Soylent Green is People! >> >> The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) Wealth w/o work >> Pleasure w/o conscience Knowledge w/o character Commerce w/o morality >> Science w/o humanity Worship w/o sacrifice Politics w/o principle >> >> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are >> not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail >> and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> >> >> > -- > ------------------------------**------------------------ > David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 > 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 > Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [email protected] > USA | http: http://fuzzo.com > ------------------------------**------------------------ > > "All drains lead to the ocean." -- Gill, Finding Nemo > > "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo > > "No trespassing > 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan > -- Claudia J. Ford [email protected] <[email protected]> 401-215-4774 *"If you want to walk fast - walk alone; if you want to walk far - walk together." African Proverb* ** This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. 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