All: 

The BLM has a "demonstration" project on Steen's mountain, complete with 
plasticized photos and text explaining that fire suppression was the culprit in 
the juniper "invasion," but my bias tends to line up more with Hohn's. However, 
I suspect trampling and hoof-dragging (soil disturbances) are more likely to be 
primary factor, borne more of gut feelings than evidence. The BLM PR discusses 
the comparative effects of various treatments, but the bias seems to be pretty 
much as Hohn describes. 

Back in 1980, I used the field-trial approach to "test" various treatments for 
grassland restoration. One of the results showed that evaporative losses went 
up, apparently drastically, as the clayey soil developed large desiccation 
cracks quickly, while the uncleared plots did not crack until much later in the 
dry season. If the cracks are deep enough and swelling doesn't close them too 
fast, there might be an advantage to the cracks as a means of depositing free 
water (especially in low-volume precipitation events) at depth rather than 
depending upon percolation alone. This sort of thing cries out for more and 
better research than we had the budget to do. Based on what I have read and 
heard over the years, I suspect that plant-soil-water relations, especially in 
wildland soils, is not well-understood by most researchers. The more certain a 
researcher is concerning such conclusions, the more I tend to consider them 
suspect. 

I think that a lot of range managers are shooting themselves in the foot by 
cutting down big junipers (as has been done at Steen's Mountain). First, 
interception of solar radiation tends to reduce evaporative loss. Second, 
junipers and other woody plants of semi-arid and arid regions tend to be fairly 
efficient in terms of "water use." Third, grasses tend to mine water from 
shallow depths and transpire more (higher ET?) from the first, say, meter or 
less of soil, thus intercepting percolating water, especially in heavier soils, 
possibly or probably reducing rather than enhancing groundwater recharge. 
Fourth, I suspect that the marginal "improvement" in forage production is a 
snare and a delusion; nobody seems to check the alternative of a mixed stand, 
so there is no comparative basis for any such conclusions apart from intuitive 
inference. Fifth, heterogeneous sites are more resilient than more homogeneous 
ones; the big, old junipers (ironically far older than the acknowledged 
beginning of fire suppression) shade areas where grasses tend to remain active 
longer as the season advances, providing more palatable forage as well as 
providing for wider reproduction potential via zones of seed production when 
the more open areas die or go dormant, resulting in diminished seed production 
or "crop" failure (provided the stock has been taken off soon enough to keep 
the seeds from being eaten before maturity). Sixth, the old junipers provide 
stock shade and wildlife cover. There may be more, but that's what comes to 
mind at the moment. 

If managers want to control the juniper invasion, why not kill the trees that 
truly represent the invasion, i.e., the younger seedlings, saplings, and 
smaller trees rather than the ones they must acknowledge existed prior to the 
"invasion?" 

As usual, I look forward to alternative evaluations of the evidence, including 
speculation with a sound theoretical foundation. 

WT

PS: I'd like to see some conclusive evidence that, in the long-term, exclusion 
of livestock from cheatgrass areas would not result in reduced cheatgrass 
populations. The restoration process could be speeded up by planting colonies 
of indigenous grasses and perhaps other species (as propagule-generators and 
for site heterogeneity) consistent with comparable sites without heavy 
cheatgrass populations. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Charlie Hohn 
  To: Wayne Tyson 
  Cc: [email protected] 
  Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a non Ivory Tower view of invasive species


  Native invasives are an important thing to acknowledge, because again the 
issue is not where plants are native to, but if they are invasive.  Native 
invasives are necessarily behaving in this way due to changes in their 
environment (I think in the juniper's case it has to do with grazing, 
right?)... and in these cases - as well as with many non-native invasives, it 
makes sense to deal with the problem by addressing the changes in the 
environment (adopt better grazing practices, fire management practices, or 
whatever the case may be).  However, I do think there are some invasive 
organisms that would be a problem even WITHOUT all these other human 
disturbances (for instance, cheatgrass)... that invade undisturbed areas and 
'crash' ecosystems without being caused by environmental changes.  I think that 
is the main reason to differentiate native invasives from introduced ones.


  On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote:

    Warren (and others), how might the juniper "invasion" on Steen's Mountain 
(or other "invasions" of indigenous species, particularly dominant, long-lived 
indicators) fit into this discussion?

    WT


    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren W. Aney" <[email protected]>

    To: <[email protected]>

    Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 9:08 PM

    Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a non Ivory Tower view of invasive species



    I was speaking from a contemporary perspective, Manuel.  From a very long
    term perspective perhaps we can say that a species that somehow translocated
    into another ecosystem may have initially disrupted that ecosystem but after
    a few thousand generations the species and the ecosystem evolved together to
    form a coherent and mutually productive stability. There is a hypothesis
    that Native Americans disrupted the American ecosystems resulting in the
    extinction of several large mammal species shortly after their arrival.  But
    after a few thousand generations it appears that they became a component of
    the American ecosystems, sometimes managing certain ecosystem elements to
    their benefit but certainly not disrupting and degrading these systems to
    the extent that Euro-Americans did (and continue to do so).

    Taking your island fauna example, consider the Galapagos finches.  Charles
    Darwin concluded that there was probably a single invasion of a finch
    species eons ago, but these finches evolved into different species so as to
    fill various ecological niches, resulting in a diverse and stable set of
    finch-inhabited ecosystems.  Certainly introduced rats could also eventually
    evolve along with the ecosystems to become a stable component.  But in the
    short term that ecosystem is going to be disrupted, and in the long term
    that ecosystem is going to be a somewhat different system.  We humans, as
    "overseers" have the ability and duty to evaluate that current disruption
    and that future potential.  There are those of us who say "let nature take
    its course" and there are those who say "manage for human values" - I say we
    should be following the axiom of Aldo Leopold: "A thing is right when it
    tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic
    community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise."  We need to evaluate and
    manage invaders with that axiom as our beacon.



    Warren W. Aney
    Tigard, Oregon



     _____

    From: Manuel Spínola [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Sunday, 11 September, 2011 04:54
    To: Warren W. Aney

    Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a non Ivory Tower view of invasive species




    Hi Warren,



    Take an island, you have "native" birds and later in time you have black
    rats that you consider invaders, but why those "native" birds are in the
    island, they needed to be invaders at some point in time.



    If Homo sapiens originated in Africa, from where the native Americans are
    from?



    Best,



    Manuel



    2011/9/10 Warren W. Aney <[email protected]>

    There can be a meaningful ecological difference between an organism that
    evolved with an ecosystem and an organism that evolved outside of but
    spread, migrated or was otherwise introduced into that ecosystem.  An
    organism that evolved with an ecosystem is considered a component that
    characterizes that ecosystem.  An introduced organism that did not evolve
    with that ecosystem should at least be evaluated for its potential modifying
    effects on that ecosystem.

    Am I being too simplistic?

    Warren W. Aney
    Senior Wildlife Ecologist
    Tigard, OR

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
    [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Manuel Spínola
    Sent: Saturday, 10 September, 2011 12:22

    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a non Ivory Tower view of invasive species



    With all due respect, are not we all invaders at some point in time?

    Best,

    Manuel Spínola

    2011/9/10 David L. McNeely <[email protected]>


      ---- Matt Chew <[email protected]> wrote:

      > We can compose effectively endless lists of cases where human agency has
      > redistributed biota and thereby affected pre-existing populations,
      > ecological relationships and traditional or potential economic
      > opportunities.  Those are indisputable facts.

      The House Sparrow is in North America by human hand.


      > But what those facts mean is disputable.

      House sparrows are in serious decline in Europe, probably as an unintended
      consequence due to human actions.
      >
      > I see effects; they see impacts.
      > I see change; they see damage.

      Many people see a need to eradicate non-natives.  At the same time, many
      people see a need to preserve natives.

      With regard to the house sparrow ------ hmmm......... .

      Where does the "arms race" that Matt mentioned further along in his post
      lead?

      mcneely

      >





    --
    *Manuel Spínola, Ph.D.*
    Instituto Internacional en Conservación y Manejo de Vida Silvestre
    Universidad Nacional
    Apartado 1350-3000
    Heredia
    COSTA RICA
    [email protected]
    [email protected]
    Teléfono: (506) 2277-3598
    Fax: (506) 2237-7036

    Personal website: Lobito de río <https://sites.google.com/site/lobitoderio/>
    Institutional website: ICOMVIS <http://www.icomvis.una.ac.cr/>







    -- 
    Manuel Spínola, Ph.D.
    Instituto Internacional en Conservación y Manejo de Vida Silvestre
    Universidad Nacional
    Apartado 1350-3000
    Heredia
    COSTA RICA
    [email protected]
    [email protected]
    Teléfono: (506) 2277-3598
    Fax: (506) 2237-7036
    Personal website: Lobito de río <https://sites.google.com/site/lobitoderio/>

    Institutional website: ICOMVIS <http://www.icomvis.una.ac.cr/>



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  -- 
  -- 
  ============================
  Charlie Hohn
  Recent Graduate
  Field Naturalist Program, Department of Plant Biology
  University of Vermont
  [email protected]
  slowwatermovement.blogspot.com


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