Hi Ben,
On Mon, 22 Jul 2024, Ben Schwartz wrote:
This document seems to propose that "https" URLs will route through
"route through" is exactly what is not happening here. https will be
secure to the edge of the IP network, which is the limit of the local IP
transaction.
gateways that terminate end-to-end security, destroying the "https"
scheme's confidentiality and integrity properties.
BPSEC picks up the slack here, as soon as the request details are placed
in a bundle for transit of the space network segments.
A new https request is created on the remote end from the data in the
bundle.
End to end IP, particularly to anywhere more remote than the Moon, is a
practical impossibility; hence, security measures must be limited in scope
to the networks they traverse.
That's a red flag
for me.
It would be for me too if what I am proposing were the same as what you
are describing.
Rather than trying to retrofit compatibility with existing terrestrial
protocols into this (hypothetical and quite distant) scenario, I think
we would be better served by developing protocols that serve real
demands today, and delaying other technical solutions until real demand
appears.
Thanks for your feedback on that. The truth is, we have most of what we
need already for mostly robotic missions. You may find the 100 year
vision of the Interplanetary Chapter of ISOC interesting:
https://www.ipnsig.org
As to real demand, an intimate knowledge of the players and their
capabilities, as well as those proposed specifications for Lunar networks,
leads me to conclude that it will be difficult to get this finished and
shiny to a stage where it is viable for flight use before it is necessary.
True, the demands of Lunar colonization are different than near term
needs, but the need for IP networking there had thusfar not been
challenged, nor has the need for BP based DTN in some instances, and
definitely between terrestrial and Lunar IP networks. We can't have
little Timmy in the basement taking over construction machines on the
Moon, can we? If Timmy has no route to the Lunar IP network, this is not
an issue. Meanwhile, we wish to enable a IP native services on the Moon,
while allowing viably delay tolerant IP applications best-effort
interoperability with terrestrial services. Given the Adopt, Adapt,
Author order of preference in engineering solutions promoted by LOGIC
(https://logic.jhuapl.edu), it seems assmebling the lego blocks we already
have into a solution, where possible, is the preferred path.
Don't get me wrong; If someone offers me a big enough check, I _may_ find
something else to do with my time, but for now, I manage to feed my kids
with pure research and development like this, so I think I am going to
keep at it ;)
Thanks,
ScottJ
--Ben
_______________________________________________________________________
From: Nordgren, Bryce - FS, MT
<bryce.l.nordgren=40usda....@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2024 3:42 PM
To: Scott Johnson <sc...@spacelypackets.com>; d...@ietf.org
<d...@ietf.org>; dnsop@ietf.org <dnsop@ietf.org>
Cc: ipnsig...@googlegroups.com <ipnsig...@googlegroups.com>;
awg-ipn...@googlegroups.com <awg-ipn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [DNSOP] Re: [dtn] An Interplanetary DNS Model
Just spitballing, but instead of a new TLD, what about
"{earth,moon,mars}. sol. arpa" as your suffix? This seems like it's
right in the wheelhouse of the "Address Resolution Parameter Area". . .
https: //en. wikipedia. org/wiki/. arpa
Just spitballing, but instead of a new TLD, what about
"{earth,moon,mars}.sol.arpa" as your suffix?
This seems like it's right in the wheelhouse of the "Address Resolution
Parameter Area"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.arpa
Forest Service Shield
Bryce Nordgren, FRIT
Physical Scientist
Forest Service
Missoula Fire Science Lab
p: 406-829-6955
c: 406-396-4147
bryce.l.nordg...@usda.gov
5775 Hwy 10 W
Missoula, MT 59808
www.fs.fed.us
USDA Logo Forest Service Twitter USDA Facebook
Caring for the land and serving people
_______________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Johnson <sc...@spacelypackets.com>
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2024 3:00 AM
To: d...@ietf.org <d...@ietf.org>; dnsop@ietf.org <dnsop@ietf.org>
Cc: ipnsig...@googlegroups.com <ipnsig...@googlegroups.com>;
awg-ipn...@googlegroups.com <awg-ipn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [dtn] An Interplanetary DNS Model
Hi Everyone,
Sorry for the 4-way cross posting, but I wanted to reach all of those
parties who may have interest.
I have published an internet-draft version of a document I have been
privately publishing, in order that the community may understand, pick
apart, improve, and fill in the blanks. This is in response to
community
interest and related efforts, in order that we best arrive at a
standardized practice and architecture for Interplanetary Internet
communications. I welcome and look forward to comments which could
help
us reach this laudable goal. I am not sure of the exact venue for WG
adoption, given the scope of the concepts. As such will I refrain from
asking for WG adoption at this time, pending discussion from the DTN
and
DNS communities.
Please find the draft here:
https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdata
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-johnson-interplanetary-dns%2F&data=05%
7C02%7Cbryce.l.nordgren%40usda.gov%7Ca6aa16d3a3434c34031208dcaa2d44ba
%7Ced5b36e701ee4ebc867ee03cfa0d4697%7C1%7C0%7C638572358631001081%7CUn
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BTPmN%2B7FDxrLZPRDDZZoD6YNKHG1d5
ROtFlDjqZg1Vs%3D&reserved=0
I would also be interested in revisiting Marc Blanchet's smtp and http
over BP related drafts in the light of the above document, to see if
adaptation can be made to make these efforts dovetail together.
Thanks to all,
Scott Johnson
Spacely Packets, LCC
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