> It must be perfectly doable to have a linux desktop without systemd and policykit, and also without dbus. I am sorry for the guy who gently proposes to maintain dbus on devuan, but I would like if its installation was optionnal, because I would like to see how it can work without it.
Dbus maintainer here. I too would prefer that dbus is optional. Part of the reason I stepped up to maintain it is to try and figure out how to make doing so easier. I've gotten a laptop working without it before (fbpanel + openbox + fdpowermon + xfm + urxvt + chromium + juffEd + ... ), so I'll bet I can come up with a virtual package for Devuan that pulls in the right dependencies. > But, for a desktop, udev, eudev, or vdev is mandatory. Is it? A lot of applications need libudev, but if I can get libudev-compat to generate the requisite information from sysfs and a static dev, I'll spring for that instead of having it depend on a device manager. Static dev should remain an option for as long as it is feasible, IMHO. -Jude On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Didier Kryn <k...@in2p3.fr> wrote: > Agreed, Martijn. I know others doing like you. This makes full sense. > > But there are also people, like me, who are fans of DIY, and have fun > assembling things to obtain a nice working Linux desktop (I also install > and manage servers). It takes some time, but it is (was?) perfectly doable. > I don't think people like me are the target of Gnome, but I thought we were > the target of Debian. > > It must be perfectly doable to have a linux desktop without systemd > and policykit, and also without dbus. I am sorry for the guy who gently > proposes to maintain dbus on devuan, but I would like if its installation > was optionnal, because I would like to see how it can work without it. But, > for a desktop, udev, eudev, or vdev is mandatory. > > I dislike dbus because I find it too complicated and do-it-all, > although I understand the motivation for it. Also, as far as I remember, it > is too much C++-minded. I have been programming in C from the beginning of > the 80's and loved it, but I think C++ is wrong by design (personal > thought), although I have no choice but to use programs written in that > language, as well as Perl, Python and Ruby, which I have no opinion about. > > Same kind of dislike towards network-manager. This is the first > package I use to remove after installing Debian. The reason: I don't know > really what it does and how, but it goes in the middle of my way. I am well > off with ifplugd, wpa_supplicant and a roaming configuration of wlan0. > > After its decision to force systemd in, Debian should rename itself > Debian-Gnome-Linux, and I hope Devuan will truely be Devuan-Gnu-Linux. > There's no harm in having several OS based on the same kernel. After all, > there's already Busybox-Linux, this is a fact; Busybox's not Gnu; and > similar projects. > > Didier > > Le 12/02/2015 06:33, Martijn Dekkers a écrit : > >> >> About 5 to 6 years ago, I came to a point where I found that I was >> spending more time making things work then actually using them, and a >> while later, reluctantly, I switched my main desktop environment to >> Windows. I manage a good number of servers, with the vast majority of >> them running Linux, but desktops? Windows all the way. Gnome developed >> exactly along the path I suspected it would which is why I avoided it >> - Miguel de Icaza being an early incarnation of Lennart. (although I >> am very happy with the Midnight Commander...), and although KDE is a >> lot more agreeable to my tastes, there is simply too much tweaking and >> day to day little hassles - I have a job to do, and my PC is the tool >> I need to do this job - it needs to Just Work(tm) >> >> Whilst I am still utterly amazed with how awesome Linux servers are, I >> don't think we will ever get there with desktops. >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >
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