I agree very much with Daniel. And Cal is right £1700/month (which is approximately ~2100EUR and ~2750USD) really is a good starting goal for a (web) developer (AFTER tax!!!). The problem is a lot of us (developers) - we are very poor business economics. And why? Well this is simple: we spend our day-time and night-time MO-FR and weekend SA-SU (even holiday) with IT-subjects, new programming techniques, operating systems, new high tech trends etc... Don't get me wrong, this is really good. There is only missing one single point - we should investigate a minimum of our time in business economics and stop underselling ourselves.
This should be at least a 4hours talk on every single Tech-University or Engineering-School before the final exams. A lot of highly qualified engineers graduate from Tech-Schools and Universities worldwide with no idea how much the hourly rate is in their business sector. And this is what really brings wages down. I don't want to be them experts, just to know a minimum would be sufficient. I remember myself, its not far back in time, I had no idea... ;-) Thanks for participating http://develissimo.com/forum/topic/107887/ Raphael On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 09:47 -0400, Daniel Sokolowski wrote: > Did the math here and that works out to about $2700/month. I would say > that would be the bare minimum considering my NOT lavish life style - > family, house, car etc. Furthermore these 'charlatans' driving the > price up is a GREAT thing because talent and skill is not cheap - > these people know what they are worth and charge accordingly - sure > some are better sales people then programmers. > > Time and time again I am reminded that anyone can call themselves a > web designer - but only a few can do what we can - that I am a web > engineer. > > Django strengths lies in customization and ability to deliver exactly > when the client wants while saving us some a small amount of time on > the basics, it's easy to put up a pretty $15 dollar template based > static site - damn I had clients thinking they were good web designer > and just wanted hosting - but not everyone can deliver exactly what is > required, that does not use a purchased rigid piece of code out there, > or code something innovative from scratch to solve a need. > > I'll repeat not everyone can do what we can do so charge accordingly, > be proud, confident and call your self a web engineer. If you talk > big, appear big, deliver big you will attract those big projects - of > course if people Google you or your business you better be on first > page to justify that. > > The company I work for as an employee charges $65/hour - after all > expenses, down time, employee wages, not billable tasks the profit > margins are not that great I recon - I would guess target being > business making $20 an hour I doubt that happens often though. > > Final food for thought - a plumber service here starts at $60-100 / > hour. > > > -- > Daniel Sokolowski > Web Engineer > Danols Web Engineering > http://webdesign.danols.com/ > Office: 613-817-6833 > Fax: 613-817-4553 > Toll Free: 1-855-5DANOLS > Kingston, ON K7L 1H3, Canada > > > > > On 03/05/2012 06:31, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Just my two cents worth on this (albeit slightly off topic) - it's > > not all about technical ability or the industry you are working in. > > > > > > Most clients are willing to pay that extra premium for contractors > > who are able to manage expectations and go above and beyond. > > > > > > I've seen many great developers with amazing skills go unnoticed, > > primarily because they don't know how to handle clients, clear and > > concise communication plays a huge part in pricing. > > > > > > The other problem is that the market is flooded with charlatans, who > > are driving the prices up and make it even more diluted for the rest > > of us. > > > > > > You also have to remember that many people don't factor in project > > management and sales/phone calls into the hourly rate - they simply > > absorb the costs - which further drives it down. > > > > > > Cut a long story short though, I personally think that around > > £1700/month after tax is the 'sweet spot' for any developer > > (assuming you're not in the city). Anything beyond that is a > > bonus :) > > > > > > Cal > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Raphael > > <developm...@develissimo.com> wrote: > > > > Hello Kurtis, > > > > thank you for letting is know about C. Lemmings post, we are > > going to use all the information we are able to grab. > > Got project data via email - but anyway till now its far not > > enough. > > > > http://develissimo.com/forum/topic/107887/ > > > > Kind regards, > > Raphael > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2012-05-01 at 10:44 -0400, Kurtis Mullins wrote: > > > > > Raphael, > > > > > > > > > According to another topic -- some developers are being > > > paid roughly $20/hour. It's under a post by Cal Lemmings > > > where he is trying to hire some entry level developer(s). > > > You might be able to use that information as well. I just > > > thought I'd let you know. > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Raphael > > > <developm...@develissimo.com> wrote: > > > > > > Dear djangos, > > > > > > if you want to hand-in your data anonymously - > > > just send us an email to django[at]develissimo.com > > > we really need more data to achieve some > > > meaningful results. > > > > > > http://develissimo.com/forum/topic/107887/ > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Raphael > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are > > > subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" > > > group. > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > django-users@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to > > > the Google Groups "Django users" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > django-users@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users > > > +unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > Google Groups "Django users" group. > > To post to this group, send email to > > django-users@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users > > +unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Django users" group. > > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users > > +unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > > > > > -- > Daniel Sokolowski > Web Engineer > Danols Web Engineering > http://webdesign.danols.com/ > Office: 613-817-6833 > Fax: 613-817-4553 > Toll Free: 1-855-5DANOLS > Kingston, ON K7L 1H3, Canada > > > Notice of Confidentiality: > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review re-transmission dissemination or other use of or taking > of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other > than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error > please contact the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and > then immediately delete this transmission including all attachments without > copying distributing or disclosing same. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users > +unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. 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