Looks like this community reached consensus several posts ago -- unless Benjamin is boss of codes of conduct, it should be merged now.
On Wednesday, 10 September 2014 09:49:15 UTC+12, Benjamin Scherrey wrote: > > Aymeric, > > I'm afraid I don't understand your protest about my reply to you. You > very clearly took a position that the policy was effective because of how > rarely it has had to have been invoked. You didn't make any case whatsoever > to justify your belief that this was a causation relationship - in fact > there is no evidence to support this, and you neglected to consider the > dangers of a policy that enumerates banned speech and actions, which I have > provided evidence to support a concern. Your message was a direct reply to > mine, contrary to my argument, and so I replied. This is not painting you > as clueless (at least not my language, anyway) but simply replying to the > point you made. > > Next you then make the personal judgement, again without any basis, > that I am irrational and not reading what other people have written on this > topic. Well I reject that completely. Not only have I read every posting on > this topic carefully, you'll see I've also researched the history of both > django group archives and scoured the internet for information supporting > both sides of this debate. Your reply, however, seems to suggest you really > haven't bothered to read the concerns about a speech code that I have > posted because it, as do almost all the other replies, completely ignores > these concerns despite actual evidence supporting them. I suggest you > follow your own advice. > > -- Ben > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Aymeric Augustin < > [email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > >> Benjamin, >> >> Please read my email again. I did not take a side in the debate. >> >> I didn’t say anything about the two PRs or your arguments. >> >> I didn’t support your position but I didn’t reject it either. >> >> Please realize that your answer expresses prejudice about my beliefs and >> that it paints me as a clueless person for no good reason. It attempts to >> force me to pick a side, and rather aggressively, while I’m not ready to do >> so in public. >> >> Please consider that I’m unfamiliar with the American cultural standards >> that underlie this entire debate and uncomfortable with participating as a >> non-native speaker, as the topic is too sensitive to allow for >> approximative vocabulary. >> >> That said, may I suggest kindly that you cool down a bit and read what >> others write? >> >> -- >> Aymeric. >> >> >> >> On 9 sept. 2014, at 21:28, Benjamin Scherrey <[email protected] >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >> Aymeric, >> >> You don't believe that one should also consider how it is used? I >> have already documented that the single ever documented threatened use of >> the existing code of conduct was not to protect anyone from harassment but, >> in fact, was used to stifle someone's thoughtful and reasoned argument and >> end debate on a point. Exactly the kind of thing that I commonly see in the >> rest of the world where such speech and conduct codes are applied. They >> inevitably lead to this and I find that coercive and destructive. Evil in >> the name of good is twice as evil. >> >> I will also note that I have made several direct assertions about the >> positive aspects and negative aspects of certain policies. The sudden >> influx of people speaking in support for a speech and conduct code that >> enumerates forbidden activities have all chosen not to respond to any of >> these assertions with reasoned arguments or provide any assertions of their >> own backed up by evidence. None. Zero. I think that speaks very much >> towards the quality of their arguments and the resulting policies if their >> preferences are chosen. Sadly, I also anticipated this when I replied to >> Kevin's latest post asking for those who supported the speech code to >> respond to my concerns directly because the usual tactic by people wishing >> to impose such things is to argue around the subject rather than address >> the real documented problems with it. Alex gets partial credit for at least >> giving some specific support (the Ada group's recommendation) for why he >> wants it but no one has bothered to address the clear and present >> documented dangers of such a thing as I have argued. >> >> Again, getting back to the subject of the two PRs, 84 is fine but 86 >> is way out of line because you've then imposed a speech and conduct code on >> the entire universe without any context of having anything to do with >> Django. Nothing good can come of this. >> >> -- Ben >> >> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:12 AM, Aymeric Augustin < >> [email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>> On 9 sept. 2014, at 19:54, Benjamin Scherrey <[email protected] >>> <javascript:>> wrote: >>> >>> > So far we have exactly one documented example and TPTB took it >>> seriously right away. To me, this hardly justifies any need for an explicit >>> "anti-harassment" policy. >>> >>> I believe the success of the code of conduct is measured by how rarely >>> it is needed. >>> >>> If it never needs to be brought up, then it has achieved its goal. >>> >>> So thanks for confirming that it works well :-) >>> >>> -- >>> Aymeric. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Django developers" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> <javascript:>. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/E4FAFFC8-DEA4-411D-9130-EA9BC74090B0%40polytechnique.org >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Chief Systems Architect Proteus Technologies <http://proteus-tech.com/> >> Chief Fan Biggest Fan Productions <http://biggestfan.net/> >> Personal blog where I am not your demographic >> <http://notyourdemographic.com/>. >> >> This email intended solely for those who have received it. If you have >> received this email by accident - well lucky you!! >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAHN%3D9D79ZSdh_oHBNdu8kSkv6oeS4tS3Ekgw6Ygz_Ft_xqUh%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAHN%3D9D79ZSdh_oHBNdu8kSkv6oeS4tS3Ekgw6Ygz_Ft_xqUh%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/51F85285-2D90-4B89-84D9-EACFA173A88B%40polytechnique.org >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/51F85285-2D90-4B89-84D9-EACFA173A88B%40polytechnique.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Chief Systems Architect Proteus Technologies <http://proteus-tech.com> > Chief Fan Biggest Fan Productions <http://biggestfan.net> > Personal blog where I am not your demographic > <http://notyourdemographic.com>. > > This email intended solely for those who have received it. If you have > received this email by accident - well lucky you!! > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/24418822-212c-402f-86cc-9f98ca3a745c%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
