Sorry I'm late back to the party boys and girls. Trivial as it may be, it's really just communication that's the only issue here, and I'm glad this has prompted a review. We all mean well and we're eager to help. The solutions Cal, Russ, Luke and co have discussed sound great.
BTW- there are two Simon's here. I'm "simon29" from the original ticket, not "Simon" from this thread. On Saturday, 11 May 2013 03:00:04 UTC+10, Simon wrote: > > Hi, > > When I started using Python a couple of months ago, a quick Google for > frameworks turned up a lot of results for Django so I decided to give it a > spin. > > I'd like to give some feedback on my experience to date. There are a lot > of features I really love, some that are a little quirky and some that are > downright inflexible. None of this will be news - it's the same for every > framework. That said, I started to have doubts when I was attempting to > find solutions/workarounds to the problems I encountered. > > Today was the 5th or 6th time that I've ended up at the ticket system and > seen people saying "This would really help me" and a core developer saying > "I don't see the need" (rather arbitrarily IMHO) and closing as wontfix. > This is invariably followed by people asking for reconsideration which in > turn gets a "use the mailing list" with varying degrees of rudeness. > > While I'm sure it's not the real reason, sending people to the mailing > lists feels like a way of brushing disagreement under the carpet. There's > no obvious way to follow on from the discussion in the ticket to the > relevant discussions in the mailing list (if any) and visitors coming by > years later now have to go and hunt through an archive to find out if > there's any chance of a change. > > I feel that the general attitude expressed in some of the tickets is poor. > The one which prompted this post is > https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/901. I think comment > 20<https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/901#comment:20> is > a good demonstration of my point. A couple of users were getting frustrated > at the lack of discussion/progress which resulted in a fairly sanctimonious > rant. > > Some other tickets I've ended up on have proposed patches and seem to have > sat in "Design decision" for years, which again gives the impression that > the core team didn't like it so just sort of ignored it until it went away. > > So, to be honest, the impression I'm getting WRT new features in Django is > "Don't bother proposing it 'cos it's not going to happen". > > There are > StackOverflow<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9791947/how-do-i-refresh-the-values-on-an-object-in-django> > > questions<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4377861/reload-django-object-from-database> > > (another<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15821581/django-how-to-refresh-or-reload-models-from-database>) > on > the topic and numerous other sources pointing at this particular ticket > wondering why it hasn't been implemented. The only reason I can see is that > "jacob" wasn't convinced by the (first) use case. > > Now, I admit that I'm probably seeing the worst side of the problem, there > are probably hundreds of other features which did get in (which is why > there's documentation not tickets for me to find) but that doesn't make the > situation I'm seeing better, just smaller. > > Perhaps the fact that people keep posting on closed tickets shows that the > current flow to the mailing lists isn't a good one? Maybe either add a > "Start a topic about this ticket" link or maybe even just allow discussion > to continue on the ticket as many others do? > > I'm unlikely to use Django moving forward. There are a number of reasons > and I'd be lying if I said this was the biggest but it was a factor in my > decision. > > Anyway, I wanted to take a few minutes and share the impressions I've had > to date - perhaps this way, others will have a better experience in future. > > Thanks for reading > > Simon > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
