This may be an uncomfortable issue to bring up, but, in general, we are not an "outreach" organization. That is, our charter is not to foster open source, nor do direct outreach, etc... it is to create open source software for the public good.
Now, OF COURSE, these sorts of efforts are part of growing and maintaining and nurturing a community, which is the key way of ensuring that the open source software is produced and maintained. The only reason why I bring this up is that it is unfair and somewhat disingenuous if we try to compare ourselves with such entities/efforts as GSOC, or OutReachy, because those sorts of efforts are their *prime* reason for existence. We should take clues from them, but they are not the exact models that we should follow. Just making sure that we all are on the same page as this is concerned. Same as with ApacheCon, for example. The ASF is not a conference producer; we do so in order to help our projects and help us fulfill our mission. We need to treat all such efforts similarly, IMHO. > On Apr 14, 2019, at 1:02 AM, Griselda Cuevas <g...@google.com.INVALID> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Understanding diversity in potential committers is important, specially to > know if efforts such as outreach, mentoring and "grooming" are the source > of our low diversity. However, I believe this is out of scope for a > *Committer > Diversity Survey*. > > Measuring the funnel is *very *important so it should happen in its own > "tool", it could be via a separate survey (for the right audience), a > qualitative research, interviews, etc. I'd recommend we keep the topic in > the radar but pause the effort to include it in this survey so we can stay > focused. > > I'm forking the conversation about measuring diversity in our growth funnel > and understanding non-code contributions to a new thread called "Areas > where we want to measure diversity, equity & inclusion". > > While we wait for more info from Sharan, I'd like to suggest we document > the objective of the committer survey in the following design document: > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r9oqJ7Ccm9d6nxWTh6Q6h2PUIemMgR7erIEilxHMkeE/edit# > I'll leave the doc open until Wednesday so we call it a v1.0 by then. > > Here's one action item I'd like to put for someone to take: > We need a new wiki page for Diversity & Inclusion, I'd like to add the v1.0 > of the committer diversity survey design doc to it, who could take on this? > Jira - (DI-3): > https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/DI/issues/DI-3?filter=allopenissues > (This need a bit more work like figuring out where to create the page, > create it and share it here) > > Thank you so much for the input, let's keep the ideas for the survey > flowing! > Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend, > G > > On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 at 18:15, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On 4/13/2019 11:02 AM, Joan Touzet wrote: >>> On 2019-04-13 2:37 a.m., Dinesh Joshi wrote: >>>> Rich, Myrle – both of you made great points. I especially think non-code >>>> contributions are critical and generally go unrecognized. They are >>>> equally as important. >>>> >>>> Regarding gathering data about individuals being nominated, perhaps >>>> sending a survey to the PMC Chairs to gather the stats, would that be >>>> reasonable? I am just trying brainstorm an effective way to gather data >>>> around who is being left out and associated reasons. >>> >>> >>> Hi Dinesh, >>> >>> I like the idea, but the devil is in the details. >>> >>> PMCs tend to be overloaded with responsibilities already. Unless we >>> provide them something well-packaged and easy to run, we won't get any >>> data this way. >>> >>> You'll also end up with serious selection bias; we'll hear back from the >>> PMCs who are motivated to tell us about specific people, or who are >>> idle, or who have smaller communities (because it's easy to get your >>> hands around who all there is). >>> >>> I'm not saying this isn't doable, but I am having a hard time thinking >>> of a way that we can get a good sample this way. >>> >>> -Joan >> >> Is the intent to have the PMC supply the information, or to ask the >> nominee to complete a survey? >> >> If the former, there may not be much information. I know and care about >> a nominee's contributions, but do not typically know their gender or >> ethnicity. I may be able to guess whether they identify as male or >> female from their name, but that is limited by my limited knowledge of >> non-English naming practices, and many English names are ambiguous. >> >> If the latter, we would get into a situation in which people would know >> they were being discussed because of getting a survey invitation. >> >> How about sending survey requests to randomly selected people who are >> active on project mailing lists? >> >>> >>>> >>>> Dinesh >>>> >>>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 6:22 AM, Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 3:32 PM Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Your suggestion of surveying non-committer Github contributors >>>>>> certainly >>>>>> has merit, but, having tried to gather that kind of data in the past >>>>>> (ie, actual contact info for contributors to an open source project, >>>>>> based on Github names), it's not particularly easy, as even the people >>>>>> that list their email address on Github (which is not everyone, by a >>>>>> long shot) consider it pretty spammy to receive surveys. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also, focusing on github contributions would leave out people who >>>>> provide >>>>> customer support. And documentation and graphics might not compare >>>>> appropriately in size with code contributions either. But non-code >>>>> contributors is one of our biggest problem-areas IMHO. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Myrle >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org >>>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org >>> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> https://www.avg.com >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org
