/*Bill Nottingham <nott...@splat.cc>*/ wrote on Wed, 7 Jan 2015 10:56:31
-0500:
Hedayat Vatankhah (hedayat....@gmail.com) said:
/*Bill Nottingham <nott...@splat.cc>*/ wrote on Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:39:27
-0500:
<...>
- Even searching for -devel packages implies a "target == host" build
sensibility that is relevant mostly to those developing Fedora, and
not to most of those developers that I run into on a day-to-day basis
(and likely not the developers we're targeting.) They're interested
in using mock along with system libraries for RHEL/CentOS, using
pip/npm/rubygems, etc.
So you mean that Fedora target developers are either using dynamic
languages, or they develop native software for RHEL/CentOS?! So you believe
that "target == rhel/centos"? And native software developers for *modern*
distros are not targets? This is really offending. RHEL/CentOS themselves
should mainly target their developers. I guess that most of the developers
you run into are working for RedHat.
... Not at Red Hat now, but what I'm saying is that the developers I
interact with are targeting mainly Ubuntu LTS and CentOS/RHEL, even if their
devel platform is Fedora. It goes back to uses of Fedora in production -
while Fedora Server certainly wants to change this, most all of the
*deployed* server systems that people are targeting for their code aren't
Fedora. Once you assume that you want to support the use case of developers
using Fedora to develop for things that aren't Fedora, I just feel
that worrying about a package tool for installing -devel packages pales in
trying to streamline the workflows the developers needs around using things
like mock and jenkins as build tools, and test environments that aren't even
local to the machine at all, whether they involve virtualization,
containers, or remote cloud services.
Well, I agree completely that solving the issue of installing -devel
packages is not enough to make Fedora suitable for developers; but it is
certainly needed. However, it would be even better if Fedora can be a
great general purpose development platform supporting development for
other targets such as RHEL/CentOS, Ubuntu and even Windows (using mingw
toolchain + wine, and then maybe virtual environments/remote access to
run/test/debug on real Windows OS); which could expand to development
for embedded devices/OSes like Android. But, IMHO, support for none of
these should be more important than native Fedora development; specially
since targeting OSes like RHEL/CentOS/Ubuntu LTS is usually important
for developers for commercial software. Someone who is developing
free(open source) software usually prefers to use 'latest and greatest',
for which usually Fedora and it's -devel packages are one of the best
things available out there. And I think free software developers should
be top priority for Fedora compared to others. There is nothing wrong
with supporting others, but the "main" target developers should be free
software developers, and they are less likely to need using mock or RHEL
system libraries.
Regards,
Hedayat
Bill
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