Again, I don't think we have outstanding discussions on the fly in dev@, so I would like to hear about "what led us to struggle about figuring out a new communication channel". Where did you find yourself to be not comfortable and what reason was it? I guess the discussion will be just a loop if we keep claiming without the actual example.
For me, here is the example I find ASF mail archive to be very useful: Google search link <https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alists.apache.org+discuss+spark+create+table&rlz=1C5GCEM_en&oq=site&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCAgAEEUYJxg7MggIABBFGCcYOzIGCAEQRRg7MggIAhBFGCcYOzIPCAMQRRg5GIMBGLEDGIAEMgYIBBBFGDwyBggFEEUYPDIGCAYQRRhBMgYIBxBFGEHSAQgxMjQzajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8> I could easily find the discussion initiated by me in 2020, 4 years ago. Also I'm really wondering if Slack would ever lead us to discuss something with lengthy detail which people may have to stay back and think about before replying. https://lists.apache.org/thread/3b1xot0hxftk3dlp6vy3kok63khoswm5 For me, whenever I was replying, I spent a non-trivial amount of time on understanding the new voices and forming the reply to be clear (to my best). It's uneasy to do the same in the Slack room/thread, at least for me. Interestingly, the discussion happened across multiple different time zones. It is pretty normal that TZ diff is more than 5 hours. I agree email is not suitable for instant chat. But technically speaking, community members are voluntary and they have their day-to-day work, so it's uneasy to ensure instant chat anyway. It does not block us from having a focus group to have internal discussion and come up with a design or some discussion topic or so, but the discussion/vote for a broader group should still have to happen in the mailing list. People shouldn't push community members to stay in Slack (or similar) to keep updated for the discussions, votes, etc. Checking inbox is a lot less overhead and a lot less stressful. Github issue might be giving similar UX, but not the services intended for instant chat. On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 10:58 PM Nimrod Ofek <ofek.nim...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I find Slack to be very easy for conversation - and even easier for more > serious conversations such as ones regarding SPIP etc. as the context is > much clearer and it's easier to follow different threads. > As for keeping historic records - as I stated, I really don't mind > creating a bot that will copy each of the messages and will post them for > historic records in the mailing list or whatever ASF wants... > Also - Discourse (that has a Slack integration by the way) or other > platforms can be used and all will be much easier to use and will encourage > more people to join the community. > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 4:41 PM Jungtaek Lim <kabhwan.opensou...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> My 2 cents here: the service is not appropriate to replace user@ or dev@ >> entirely (even putting aside of ASF policy) if any of the functionality is >> not fulfilled >> >> 1. Infinite retention. >> >> See below. This is what the ASF mail archive serves now. You get the >> history from the incubator. >> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@spark.apache.org:2013-06 >> >> 2. External Search >> >> ASF mail archive supports search but I don't think it's powerful. But, >> everything in user@ and dev@ is exposed to the public (via mail archive) >> and "indexed" to search engines. Have you tried "site:lists.apache.org >> SPIP" in Google? >> >> Any tool can be used to accelerate the faster communication, but serious >> discussions impacting the project direction (e.g. SPIP, core features, >> breaking changes, etc) and their VOTE threads, must be guarded by infinite >> retention and be exposed to public (and easier to find in anytime, even for >> future community member). >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 7:46 PM Nimrod Ofek <ofek.nim...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Many other oss projects (some of which include some of the participants >>> of this mailing list I'm sure) are using Slack as a more modern >>> communication channel. >>> >>> I find Slack to be more appropriate these days, easier to navigate >>> through groups, easier to see context of different threads and also has a >>> built in mechanism for votes. >>> >>> I think that the only issue is that the free plan includes only 90 days >>> message retention- but I'm sure that one of the managers (Matei maybe?) can >>> negotiate different retention, we don't really need other features but the >>> retention is important- and I'm sure it's important for other Databricks >>> projects that are using Slack like Unity Catalog and Delta. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nimrod >>> >>
