Hi Tiago, Thank is not the point: "ASF has nothing to do with adopting other vendors' HAL or not."
If we move Espressif HAL to ASF Infra but cannot move other HALs there, we immediately create a problem: we will spread HALs across different locations. BR, Alan On Wed, Oct 7, 2026 at 10:51 AM Tiago Medicci Serrano < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > > Just to address some concerns: > > Tomek, a veto is valid for *code modifications.* No code is being > modified here. In this case, the best fit for this vote is a *procedural > issue *(we are moving a piece of code to ASF). That's why simple majority > applies and I declared it as *passed* (I wasn't "pushing" for that, I > based it on https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting). > > Alan, respectfully, all the concerns you raised are not related to this > vote. ASF has nothing to do with adopting other vendors' HAL or not. This > is a decision for the projects ASF hosts (and, of course, if they fulfil > ASF requirements). The same for HAL becoming (or not) a standard on NuttX: > nothing prevents native development. We voted for hosting Espressif's HAL > under ASF (and only that). > > Best regards, > > > Em qua., 7 de out. de 2026 às 10:36, Karel Kočí <[email protected]> > escreveu: > >> Hi, >> >> I want to support Alan here. I would prefer the ESP HAL integration, when >> it is >> donated anyway, over HAL standardization. On this I like the Alan's >> approach >> more. I only feel like we might be minority. >> >> I am not against vendor HALs out right, I just think that they should be >> "secondary" support and that they should not be part of the core. Vendors >> having >> option either doing the right thing and donating the code, or doing the >> cheap >> thing and just integrating with NuttX through their existing HAL. >> >> I am advocating for ESP integration and addition of support for external >> chips. >> >> Karel >> >> On Wed 07 Oct 2026 10:26:30 AM , Alan C. Assis wrote: >> > Hi Tomek and Tiago, >> > >> > Right, I can change my vote to +1 to let it pass. >> > >> > Although I think we are doing the wrong thing. It should have been done >> in >> > the right order. >> > >> > First we need to confirm with ASF if they will accept hosting any HAL >> even >> > from vendors who do not want to give a SGA to Apache. >> > >> > And maybe even more importantly: shouldn't we vote first on whether to >> > accept HAL as a standard? >> > >> > It seems many here oppose making HAL a standard to avoid the issue other >> > RTOSs face with poor-quality HALs. >> > >> > We can move the Espressif HAL to the Apache repository and over time, we >> > can fix NuttX to replace it with native code. I think this is the safer >> > option. >> > >> > BR, >> > >> > Alan >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 7, 2026 at 10:13 AM Tomek CEDRO <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > Ugh, isn't that single -1 blocks the vote pass? >> > > >> > > Alan I think in this particular situation it is worth giving +1 here.. >> > > would it be possible for you to reconsider and give +1 please? :-) >> > > >> > > -- >> > > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info >> > > >> > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2026, 15:02 Tiago Medicci Serrano < >> [email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hi, >> > > > >> > > > 72 hours have already passed, so I'm closing this call for a vote >> and its >> > > > results: >> > > > >> > > > We had 3+ (me, Tomek, and Alin) and 1- (Alan). As a *procedural >> Issue*, a >> > > > simple majority is enough. So it has *passed*. >> > > > >> > > > We are working towards meeting ASF requirements in the coming days. >> > > > >> > > > Best regards, >> > > > >> > > > Em seg., 5 de out. de 2026 às 12:54, Tiago Medicci Serrano < >> > > > [email protected]> escreveu: >> > > > >> > > > > Hi, >> > > > > >> > > > > As mentioned earlier, >> https://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty/ >> > > is >> > > > > used only by NuttX. >> > > > > >> > > > > Best regards, >> > > > > >> > > > > Em seg., 5 de out. de 2026 às 11:33, Alan C. Assis < >> [email protected]> >> > > > > escreveu: >> > > > > >> > > > >> Hi Tiago, >> > > > >> >> > > > >> I think we made a mistake when we said that Espressif had already >> > > signed >> > > > >> the SGA. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> That SGA was for software Espressif was contributing to the NuttX >> > > > >> mainline. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> For the HAL, the situation is different. If Espressif signs an >> SGA for >> > > > >> their HAL it means Espressif is donating their HAL to ASF, the >> same >> > > way >> > > > >> Greg donated NuttX to ASF. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> By doing so, Espressif will not have rights over its own HAL >> (same way >> > > > >> Greg >> > > > >> has no rights to NuttX now). >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Are you sure Espressif agrees on that? If so, Espressif and the >> Linux >> > > > >> Foundation need to agree that ASF will be the owner of the HAL. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> BR, >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Alan >> > > > >> >> > > > >> On Mon, Oct 5, 2026 at 9:58 AM Tiago Medicci Serrano < >> > > > >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > Hi, >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Just addressing the last comments: >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > 1. We can't say anything about other vendors. This is how we >> > > proposed >> > > > to >> > > > >> > host Espressif's HAL: under the Apache umbrella because we >> already >> > > > have >> > > > >> a >> > > > >> > signed CCLA. *Keep in mind that this call for a vote is about >> > > > >> Espressif's >> > > > >> > HAL only*. >> > > > >> > 2. It's being contributed to a separate repository because: >> > > > >> > 2.1 It eases new contributions and new syncs being contributed >> by >> > > > >> > Espressif. >> > > > >> > 2.2 The HAL has its own coding style and contribution guide. >> > > > >> > 2.3 It makes it easier to implement native implementations and >> > > isolate >> > > > >> them >> > > > >> > from the HAL. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Please, keep voting on the proposed subject. Nothing else is >> being >> > > > >> > discussed here (we have other threads to discuss it). >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Best regards, >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Em sáb., 3 de out. de 2026 às 09:11, Alan C. Assis < >> > > [email protected] >> > > > > >> > > > >> > escreveu: >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > Hi Tomek, >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > These are the issues I'm seeing here: >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > 1) If Espressif donates its HAL to ASF it means they will no >> > > longer >> > > > >> own >> > > > >> > the >> > > > >> > > HAL (you cannot have your cake and eat it too). Is this >> acceptable >> > > > to >> > > > >> > them? >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > 2) Even if they accept this, other vendors probably will not >> > > accept >> > > > >> > > donating their HALs. In this case we cannot keep it under >> ASF. >> > > > >> > > If so, we would have to place it elsewhere, which would cause >> > > > >> confusion: >> > > > >> > > why are some HALs under ASF and others in a different >> location? >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > BR, >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Alan >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2026 at 10:27 PM Tomek CEDRO < >> [email protected]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Hey there Alan, >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Most of the raised HAL related issues should be solved >> that way >> > > as >> > > > >> > > > proposed by Tiago and Espressif in this vote: >> > > > >> > > > 1. Code ownership and supply chain security (mentioned by >> Alin). >> > > > >> > > > 2. Community involvement in faster PR processing >> (mentioned by >> > > > >> Felipe). >> > > > >> > > > 3. We should have more control and impact on the HAL >> quality and >> > > > >> > > > availability (mentioned by many). >> > > > >> > > > 4. HAL is under the NuttX umbrella just as proposed "Zephyr >> > > > Umbrella >> > > > >> > > > Way" (mentioned by Renesas). >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > From I understand Espressif offers to "donate" HAL to ASF >> to be >> > > > >> > > > apache/nuttx-hal-espressif and this seems the best possible >> > > > win-win >> > > > >> > > > scenario. They don't have to do this but they want - big >> thank >> > > > you! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > What obstacles do you see here? The vote here is about >> "Hosting >> > > > >> > > > Espressif HAL under Apache umbrella" not all HALs. We have >> > > perfect >> > > > >> > > > road paving here and good example for others. If we have >> problem >> > > > >> with >> > > > >> > > > other HAL then we vote other thing. But why block good >> solution >> > > > >> > > > because of other possible bad solutions? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > We may one day consider Tiers as proposed by Michal and >> > > mentioned >> > > > by >> > > > >> > > > Nathan (with FreeBSD): >> > > > >> > > > 1. Tier 1 - in tree code drivers. >> > > > >> > > > 2. Tier 2 - HAL that is under ASF and our control. <-- we >> are >> > > > voting >> > > > >> > > > this scenario here. >> > > > >> > > > 3. Tier 3 - HAL that is external and out of our control >> (not >> > > rally >> > > > >> > > > welcome). >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Could you please reconsider your vote for this particular >> case / >> > > > >> > > > scenario that is being voted? It seems that Espressif >> listened >> > > > >> > > > carefully and provides best possible scenario :-) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Thanks :-) >> > > > >> > > > Tomek >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > >> > > > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2026 at 3:10 PM Alan C. Assis < >> [email protected] >> > > > >> > > > >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > -1 >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > As I explained before we cannot keep all HALs under ASF. >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > BR, >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Alan >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2026 at 10:31 AM Tiago Medicci Serrano < >> > > > >> > > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > Hi All, >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > After several discussions about HAL usage and community >> > > > >> governance >> > > > >> > > > > > [1][2][3], we (Espressif) propose hosting the current >> > > content >> > > > >> of ` >> > > > >> > > > > > github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty` >> <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> > > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> > > > > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> under >> an >> > > > >> ASF-hosted >> > > > >> > > > > > repository: ` >> > > > >> > > > > > github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif` >> <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> > > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> > > > > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif>. >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > *What does it mean:* >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > - `esp-hal-3rdparty` content is already Apache 2.0 >> > > > licensed. >> > > > >> > > > > > - Espressif's CCLA allows us to contribute to a >> newly >> > > > created >> > > > >> > > > > > repository: we would create a PR on ` >> > > > >> > > > > > github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif` >> <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> > > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> >> > > > >> > > > > > <http://github.com/apache/nuttx-hal-espressif> with >> > > > >> > > `esp-hal-3rdparty` >> > > > >> > > > > > content. >> > > > >> > > > > > - On the other hand, the org account on ` >> > > > >> github.com/nuttx` <http://github.com/nuttx> < >> http://github.com/nuttx> <http://github.com/nuttx> >> > > <http://github.com/nuttx> >> > > > >> > <http://github.com/nuttx> >> > > > >> > > <http://github.com/nuttx> >> > > > >> > > > <http://github.com/nuttx> >> > > > >> > > > > > <http://github.com/nuttx> is not >> > > > >> > > > > > legally attached to Apache Software Foundation >> and, >> > > > >> > > > > > consequently, to NuttX. >> > > > >> > > > > > We can't directly contribute to it. >> > > > >> > > > > > - NuttX's committers will have (just like `nuttx` >> and >> > > > >> > > `nuttx-apps`) >> > > > >> > > > > > write permissions to merge PRs on the newly created >> > > > >> repository; >> > > > >> > > > > > - Espressif will support the community with HAL >> usage, >> > > > >> > including a >> > > > >> > > > > > comprehensive guide on how to update it so that any >> > > > community >> > > > >> > > > member can >> > > > >> > > > > > send patches for HAL. >> > > > >> > > > > > - The discussion about HAL governance comes and >> goes, >> > > > >> creating >> > > > >> > > > > > instability in the NuttX community among members, >> > > > developers, >> > > > >> > and >> > > > >> > > > > > vendors. >> > > > >> > > > > > This is no longer acceptable and needs settlement. >> That >> > > > being >> > > > >> > > said: >> > > > >> > > > > > - `github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty` >> <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> > > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> >> > > > >> > > > > > <http://github.com/espressif/esp-hal-3rdparty> will no >> > > longer >> > > > >> > > receive >> > > > >> > > > > > direct contributions for now. >> > > > >> > > > > > - The newly created `apache/nuttx-hal-espressif` >> - if >> > > > the >> > > > >> > > > community >> > > > >> > > > > > agrees on that - will enable it to evolve and >> receive >> > > > new >> > > > >> > > > > > contributions >> > > > >> > > > > > with more authority from the community. >> > > > >> > > > > > - On the other hand, native development is >> always an >> > > > >> option >> > > > >> > if >> > > > >> > > > the >> > > > >> > > > > > community decides to keep supporting the devices >> on >> > > its >> > > > >> own. >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > *What it doesn't mean:* >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > - It doesn't mean we are pushing NuttX to accept >> vendor >> > > > HALs. >> > > > >> > > > > > `esp-hal-3rdparty` is a reality, and we want to >> empower >> > > the >> > > > >> > > > community to >> > > > >> > > > > > enable any NuttX member to directly work with it. >> > > > >> > > > > > - The discussion of whether NuttX should or >> should not >> > > > >> > > officially >> > > > >> > > > > > approve vendor HALs is not related to this call >> for a >> > > > >> vote. >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > This seems to be a *Procedural Issue* [4], and a simple >> > > > majority >> > > > >> > > > should be >> > > > >> > > > > > applied. The community is encouraged to vote. PMC >> members >> > > have >> > > > >> > > binding >> > > > >> > > > > > votes. >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > In that sense, my vote (Tiago) is *+1 *(binding) >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > References: >> > > > >> > > > > > [1] >> > > > >> > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/gf4c3z4ds94lon91op4c6zmclqnwtvcf >> > > > >> > > > > > [2] >> > > > >> > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/nvnrf30jcdsxcrydmo2s95tdtlj8zvx9 >> > > > >> > > > > > [3] >> > > > >> > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/bg74qn14rs9qwson5lzt0xjb4fvbqh6j >> > > > >> > > > > > [4] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >
