Hi Justine, If there are more things you think are needed in 3.8 for migration, let's discuss in the VOTE thread.
best, Colin On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, at 09:23, Justine Olshan wrote: > While I agree we should have this release and should vote on it soon, is it > worth determining the exact items we need before we vote? Just so we are > all in agreement? > There is still some discussion on the road to 4.0 thread that may be worth > having here. > > On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 1:25 AM Josep Prat <josep.p...@aiven.io.invalid> > wrote: > >> Hi Colin, >> Sorry for being quiet these last days (PTO). >> >> I will start the vote thread right away. >> >> Best, >> >> >> --- >> Josep Prat >> Open Source Engineering Director, aivenjosep.p...@aiven.io | >> +491715557497 | aiven.io >> Aiven Deutschland GmbH >> Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin >> Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> >> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 00:24 Colin McCabe <cmcc...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> > Hi all, >> > >> > Since this has been open for a few weeks, are there any objections to >> > starting the vote? What do you think, Josep? >> > >> > Since 3.8 is going to be the next release (according to the KIP) we >> should >> > really vote this in as soon as possible. >> > >> > Also, I created a wiki page about the 3.8 release with a tentative >> > schedule. >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Release+Plan+3.8.0 >> > >> > Please let me know if these dates make sense -- they're just proposals >> > right now. >> > >> > best, >> > Colin >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 28, 2023, at 20:14, Colin McCabe wrote: >> > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2023, at 18:17, Justine Olshan wrote: >> > >> Hey Colin, >> > >> >> > >> Some folks were concerned about the lack of automatic unclean leader >> > >> election. I mentioned that KIP-966 would actually be better with its >> > >> aggressive recovery option. >> > >> I think folks were hoping for some availability over durability >> solution >> > >> for KRaft, so if we don't do KIP-966 we should provide an alternative >> > or be >> > >> able to convince ourselves it is not needed. >> > > >> > > Hi Justine, >> > > >> > > That's a fair point. We should specify in KIP-1012 that we need to have >> > > some way to configure the system to automatically do unclean leader >> > > election. If we run out of time implementing KIP-966, this could be >> > > something quite simple, like honoring the static >> > > unclean.leader.election = true configuration. >> > > >> > >> >> > >> I think while many folks decided KIP-853 was a blocker, there were a >> > lot of >> > >> other features that many folks were expecting so I don't think we can >> > say >> > >> definitively the only must-have is KIP-853 (and hence the discussion >> > thread >> > >> here :) ) >> > >> >> > >> Also as an aside, I filed a ticket to remove ZK from the top of the >> > >> quickstart guide. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-15975 >> > >> >> > > >> > > Yeah. There is a bunch of docs and quickstart cleanup that we should >> > > do. I don't think any of it is a blocker for 3.8 or 4.0, but the new >> > > year is a good time to clean things up. >> > > >> > > best, >> > > Colin >> > > >> > > >> > >> Justine >> > >> >> > >> On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 5:12 PM Colin McCabe <cmcc...@apache.org> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> Hi Josep, >> > >>> >> > >>> Thanks for the KIP. Based on the discussions we had previously, I >> agree >> > >>> that we need a 3.8. >> > >>> >> > >>> It would be good to link to KIP-833 in the motivation section, since >> > this >> > >>> KIP builds on that one. >> > >>> >> > >>> Also, I think we should mention in KIP-1012 that 3.8 will be a >> > >>> general-purpose release that may add some new features. This was >> > something >> > >>> that we were on the fence about previously, so it would be good to >> > clarify >> > >>> it here. >> > >>> >> > >>> On another note. I don't think KIP-966 is a "must-have" for Kafka >> 3.8, >> > as >> > >>> the KIP currently states. I certainly hope that it makes it for 3.8, >> > but if >> > >>> it doesn't, it can go into 4.0. It's not needed for migration, so it >> > could >> > >>> just as easily go into 4.0 as 3.8. The only thing that KIP-966 really >> > needs >> > >>> is "KIP-853: KRaft Controller Membership Changes." >> > >>> >> > >>> Along these lines, I think we should drop the language about >> "strategic >> > >>> feature parity with Zookeeper." Kafka isn't competing with ZooKeeper, >> > and >> > >>> doesn't need feature parity with it. For example, ZK implemented >> > >>> Netty-TcNative OpenSSL Support, but we don't have that (and probably >> > won't >> > >>> in 3.8). We probably won't add this -- or if we do, it won't be so >> > that we >> > >>> can have "parity with ZK." Really the only must-have in 3.8 is >> > KIP-853, and >> > >>> we should be clear about that. >> > >>> >> > >>> I think we should start issuing a deprecation log message at ERROR >> > level >> > >>> when brokers start up in ZK mode. This message could point out that >> > some >> > >>> safety mechanisms and new features will not be available in ZK mode, >> > and >> > >>> give a link to our documentation about migration. >> > >>> >> > >>> We should probably also move the example configurations for kraft >> from >> > >>> config/kraft to config. And move the zk ones into config/zk. Or maybe >> > even >> > >>> drop the ZK ones altogether, since they're not needed for migration >> or >> > >>> upgrade. >> > >>> >> > >>> best, >> > >>> Colin >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2023, at 04:37, Josep Prat wrote: >> > >>> > On this note, I'd like to add that I would volunteer to be the >> > release >> > >>> > manager of such release 3.8.0. >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Best, >> > >>> > >> > >>> > On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 1:31 PM Josep Prat <josep.p...@aiven.io> >> > wrote: >> > >>> > >> > >>> >> Hi all! >> > >>> >> As agreed on the "Road to Kafka 4.0" email thread, I created >> > KIP-1012 to >> > >>> >> discuss and I'd like to open it up for discussion: >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1012%3A+The+need+for+a+Kafka+3.8.x+release >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> Let's use this KIP to: >> > >>> >> a) Leave a papertrail agreement for the need of a 3.8 version >> > >>> >> b) Define which KIPs are the must-haves in regards to KRaft that >> > should >> > >>> be >> > >>> >> included there. >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> Please let me know your feedback and suggestions. >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> Best, >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> -- >> > >>> >> [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> *Josep Prat* >> > >>> >> Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* >> > >>> >> josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 >> > >>> >> aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | >> > >>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud> >> > >>> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> < >> > >>> https://twitter.com/aiven_io> >> > >>> >> *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > >>> >> Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin >> > >>> >> Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> > >>> >> Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > >>> >> >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > -- >> > >>> > [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> >> > >>> > >> > >>> > *Josep Prat* >> > >>> > Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* >> > >>> > josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 >> > >>> > aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | < >> > >>> https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud> >> > >>> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> < >> > >>> https://twitter.com/aiven_io> >> > >>> > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > >>> > Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin >> > >>> > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> > >>> > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > >>> >> > >>
