Hey Colin, Some folks were concerned about the lack of automatic unclean leader election. I mentioned that KIP-966 would actually be better with its aggressive recovery option. I think folks were hoping for some availability over durability solution for KRaft, so if we don't do KIP-966 we should provide an alternative or be able to convince ourselves it is not needed.
I think while many folks decided KIP-853 was a blocker, there were a lot of other features that many folks were expecting so I don't think we can say definitively the only must-have is KIP-853 (and hence the discussion thread here :) ) Also as an aside, I filed a ticket to remove ZK from the top of the quickstart guide. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-15975 Justine On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 5:12 PM Colin McCabe <cmcc...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi Josep, > > Thanks for the KIP. Based on the discussions we had previously, I agree > that we need a 3.8. > > It would be good to link to KIP-833 in the motivation section, since this > KIP builds on that one. > > Also, I think we should mention in KIP-1012 that 3.8 will be a > general-purpose release that may add some new features. This was something > that we were on the fence about previously, so it would be good to clarify > it here. > > On another note. I don't think KIP-966 is a "must-have" for Kafka 3.8, as > the KIP currently states. I certainly hope that it makes it for 3.8, but if > it doesn't, it can go into 4.0. It's not needed for migration, so it could > just as easily go into 4.0 as 3.8. The only thing that KIP-966 really needs > is "KIP-853: KRaft Controller Membership Changes." > > Along these lines, I think we should drop the language about "strategic > feature parity with Zookeeper." Kafka isn't competing with ZooKeeper, and > doesn't need feature parity with it. For example, ZK implemented > Netty-TcNative OpenSSL Support, but we don't have that (and probably won't > in 3.8). We probably won't add this -- or if we do, it won't be so that we > can have "parity with ZK." Really the only must-have in 3.8 is KIP-853, and > we should be clear about that. > > I think we should start issuing a deprecation log message at ERROR level > when brokers start up in ZK mode. This message could point out that some > safety mechanisms and new features will not be available in ZK mode, and > give a link to our documentation about migration. > > We should probably also move the example configurations for kraft from > config/kraft to config. And move the zk ones into config/zk. Or maybe even > drop the ZK ones altogether, since they're not needed for migration or > upgrade. > > best, > Colin > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2023, at 04:37, Josep Prat wrote: > > On this note, I'd like to add that I would volunteer to be the release > > manager of such release 3.8.0. > > > > Best, > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 1:31 PM Josep Prat <josep.p...@aiven.io> wrote: > > > >> Hi all! > >> As agreed on the "Road to Kafka 4.0" email thread, I created KIP-1012 to > >> discuss and I'd like to open it up for discussion: > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1012%3A+The+need+for+a+Kafka+3.8.x+release > >> > >> Let's use this KIP to: > >> a) Leave a papertrail agreement for the need of a 3.8 version > >> b) Define which KIPs are the must-haves in regards to KRaft that should > be > >> included there. > >> > >> Please let me know your feedback and suggestions. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> -- > >> [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> > >> > >> *Josep Prat* > >> Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* > >> josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 > >> aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | > >> <https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud> > >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> < > https://twitter.com/aiven_io> > >> *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > >> Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin > >> Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen > >> Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B > >> > > > > > > -- > > [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> > > > > *Josep Prat* > > Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* > > josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 > > aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | < > https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud> > > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> < > https://twitter.com/aiven_io> > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > > Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >
