I think it's reasonable to link to the other channels. We want to raise awareness of this content, just not get involved in moderation.
On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 11:11 AM Jonathan Leang <leangjonat...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks everyone for the time and input. Kevin and I will just run this off > our own YouTube channel as suggested. > https://www.youtube.com/@IcebergMeetup > > Ryan, appreciate the candor and I understand the nuance here. To fully > button up this conversation, can you suggest if we should link the above > channel and/or curate a playlist for the meetups in the official channel? > > - Jonathan > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 4:25 PM Ryan Blue <b...@databricks.com.invalid> > wrote: > >> I definitely prefer not posting videos from an official channel unless >> they are from some official event, for the same reason that I don't think >> it is a good idea to publish blog posts. We don't want the PMC to become >> moderators of what can or can't go there, even if it seems easy to make a >> choice right now. And we don't want to take responsibility for whatever is >> said in this channel. >> >> There are lots of things that could go wrong, even in this case and even >> if people are trying to do the right thing. For instance, what if one of >> the talks (not curated by the community) presents a benchmark favoring one >> vendor over another? Do we want it to look like the community is promoting >> it as credible? What if a vendor asks for it to be taken down? Do we want >> to form an opinion about whether that benchmark is fair and accurate? >> >> I just think this opens us up to high tension situations that could >> distract and slow down what we're working on. And there isn't a very clear >> benefit to that risk. If this uses a separate youtube channel, what is the >> downside? >> >> Ryan >> >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 2:07 PM Yufei Gu <flyrain...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> +1 for option 3, to publish meetup videos under the Apache Iceberg >>> YouTube channel in a new playlist. >>> >>> We normally trust people to do the right thing. That's how the community >>> thrives. But in case any video violates ASF trademark guidelines, we can >>> still take it down as Jack suggested. >>> >>> Yufei >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 12:07 PM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I was able to find the following 2 seemingly official channels (please >>>> confirm if possible): >>>> - Apache Beam: https://www.youtube.com/@ApacheBeamYT >>>> - Apache Airflow: https://www.youtube.com/@ApacheAirflow >>>> >>>> Personally speaking I am fine either way. The 2 channels above have all >>>> sorts of talks, meetup recordings out there, so I am not particularly >>>> concerned about vendor endorsement. If there are contents that are clearly >>>> vendor marketing material, people will probably flag that anyway and the >>>> PMC can put it down. But on the other hand, I can also see where Ryan is >>>> coming from given that vendor neutrality is a critical aspect of this >>>> project and it's good that we think this through. >>>> >>>> I will leave this to people who have concerns, previous experience or >>>> know more about the related ASF guidelines to comment here. >>>> >>>> -Jack >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 11:56 AM Jonathan Leang < >>>> leangjonat...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Floating this up again since we haven't gotten any movement on the >>>>> thread. I couldn't find anything like an "official" YouTube or other socal >>>>> for other ASF projects so AFAIK we are doing something a bit different >>>>> (which is super cool btw). >>>>> >>>>> From looking through the existing YouTube channel for Iceberg, there >>>>> are three playlists: Iceberg Talks, Iceberg Tutorials, and Iceberg >>>>> Community Syncs. Iceberg Community Syncs are just that. Iceberg Talks and >>>>> Iceberg Tutorials seem like they are mostly from vendors. Iceberg Talks >>>>> specifically has the description "Conferences, Meetups, and any talk >>>>> happening in the Iceberg Community". >>>>> >>>>> The meetups we want to post have been run in such a way that they are >>>>> vendor agnostic. We've even come up with guidelines for this >>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y87k-8nCMczzORIcsePDu6CWTTO0h9qI67W_go8BmPA >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> There are a few ways I've thought of for us to post these talks: >>>>> 1. We publish under a different YouTube channel and that's it >>>>> 2. We publish under a different YouTube channel and the Apache Iceberg >>>>> YouTube can curate a new playlist of the videos posted >>>>> 3. We publish under the Apache Iceberg YouTube channel in a new >>>>> playlist >>>>> >>>>> IMO #3 would be good so we can publish under the same roof and not >>>>> have community-led videos fractured over multiple accounts. Ryan, Jack, or >>>>> anyone else with some thoughts on this? >>>>> >>>>> - Jonathan >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 7:51 PM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Can people share what other projects do? And are there any related >>>>>> ASF guidelines out there about this? >>>>>> >>>>>> -Jack >>>>>> >>>>>> -Jack >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024, 3:57 PM Ryan Blue <b...@databricks.com.invalid> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't realize that the account was curating playlists. I'm trying >>>>>>> to draw a parallel with the blog post example. Do we consider playlists >>>>>>> links? I guess the question is whether it looks official. Would >>>>>>> inclusion >>>>>>> in a playlist be mistaken for an endorsement? Or would we get into >>>>>>> unnecessary debates over what is appropriate for inclusion in a >>>>>>> playlist? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 3:39 PM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Looking at https://www.youtube.com/@ApacheIceberg/playlists, there >>>>>>>> are also many other talks and even tutorials, what about those? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Jack >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 2:45 PM Brian Olsen < >>>>>>>> bitsondata...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Update: I moved the video and playlist to a Private status until >>>>>>>>> this is discussed. In the meantime, we'll wait to hear some guidance >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> the PMC and community to advise. Otherwise, I suggest that Jonathan >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> Kevin create an unofficial community Apache Iceberg Meetups channel >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> follows the trademark guidelines: >>>>>>>>> https://apache.org/foundation/marks/ but have asked them to give >>>>>>>>> some time to let others respond. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks all! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 4:41 PM Brian Olsen < >>>>>>>>> bitsondata...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hey Ryan, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I will take that down, apologies for that confusion. I remember >>>>>>>>>> having some discussion around this before and my recollection was >>>>>>>>>> this was >>>>>>>>>> more of a concern about vendor content but after I read your reply I >>>>>>>>>> remembered this was a more general ASF sentiment. So with that, I >>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>> think distributing these through various channels would be valuable, >>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>> exposing them through playlists. For example, we added the Data >>>>>>>>>> Council >>>>>>>>>> talk you gave a while back where the video is hosted on Data >>>>>>>>>> Council's >>>>>>>>>> channel, but we've added it to the "Iceberg Talks Playlist". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps this would be a matter of having the PMC create some >>>>>>>>>> guidance on certain playlists like the meetups playlist I just >>>>>>>>>> created and >>>>>>>>>> then I can add videos from other channels that say Kevin and others >>>>>>>>>> own to >>>>>>>>>> upload Iceberg meetups and we can push visibility to certain videos >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> their channels that meet the criteria (like avoiding talks that are >>>>>>>>>> pushing >>>>>>>>>> a particular vendor or product for example). Would this align more >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> what you have in mind to avoid endorsements? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 3:59 PM Ryan Blue >>>>>>>>>> <b...@databricks.com.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I strongly prefer not posting meetup videos on an official >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Iceberg channel. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That's why we have up until now used the channel only for >>>>>>>>>>> videos from sanctioned Iceberg events >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/@ApacheIceberg/videos>, like community >>>>>>>>>>> syncs or the Apache Iceberg Summit. I wasn't aware that Bits posted >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> last Seattle meetup video. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> An "official" distribution channel like this (one controlled by >>>>>>>>>>> the Iceberg PMC) needs to be careful about posting content because >>>>>>>>>>> it can >>>>>>>>>>> be seen as an endorsement and there are reasonable objections around >>>>>>>>>>> posting some videos (for instance, they are strongly biased to a >>>>>>>>>>> particular >>>>>>>>>>> solution or vendor). I don't want the PMC to be in the business of >>>>>>>>>>> deciding >>>>>>>>>>> what gets to be on the official channel or not -- that's a whole >>>>>>>>>>> set of >>>>>>>>>>> arguments that I think we want to steer clear of. This is also the >>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>> why the Iceberg site doesn't host blog posts, by the way. We >>>>>>>>>>> originally had >>>>>>>>>>> requests for people to post articles, but I don't think it is wise >>>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>>> project to decide what opinions can be posted there. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think that we should remove the last meetup video and only >>>>>>>>>>> post content like the community sync videos. For everything else, I >>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> it is a good idea to have a separate channel. We can link to those >>>>>>>>>>> channels >>>>>>>>>>> to make them easy to find, but we don't want to be in the middle >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> someone has an opinion about what should or should not be posted >>>>>>>>>>> and should >>>>>>>>>>> not be seen as endorsing any particular solutions. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ryan >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:44 PM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > posting/content management privileges to the Iceberg YouTube >>>>>>>>>>>> channel for these meetup recordings >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds reasonable to me, when the meetup is recurring. So >>>>>>>>>>>> I am good with doing this for the Seattle meetup series. We have >>>>>>>>>>>> technically already done so for Bits for the community sync >>>>>>>>>>>> meeting series. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Jack >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:23 PM Jonathan Leang < >>>>>>>>>>>> leangjonat...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a question related to some questions about shared >>>>>>>>>>>>> administration of Apache Iceberg social/marketing channels such >>>>>>>>>>>>> as YouTube >>>>>>>>>>>>> in this specific instance. Kevin Liu and I have organized the >>>>>>>>>>>>> first Seattle >>>>>>>>>>>>> Iceberg meetups and it looks like there will be a steady stream of >>>>>>>>>>>>> technical talks about things like proposals and more generally >>>>>>>>>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>>>>> developments in the project. Bits (Brian Olsen) helped us get the >>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>> recent meetup posted on the Apache Iceberg YouTube channel but >>>>>>>>>>>>> we're hoping >>>>>>>>>>>>> not to bother him every month. We're wondering if Kevin and/or I >>>>>>>>>>>>> can get >>>>>>>>>>>>> posting/content management privileges to the Iceberg YouTube >>>>>>>>>>>>> channel for >>>>>>>>>>>>> these meetup recordings. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We asked Bits and he replied: >>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be good to have some trusted people + PMC coordinate >>>>>>>>>>>>> the social + marketing channels. In many projects I either see >>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody >>>>>>>>>>>>> really owning it and it becomes abandoned over time and other >>>>>>>>>>>>> times I see >>>>>>>>>>>>> it primarily run through one or two companies or individuals >>>>>>>>>>>>> which doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> scale. It would be great if a small group of trusted volunteers >>>>>>>>>>>>> comanage >>>>>>>>>>>>> these marketing channels with similar guidelines on how to >>>>>>>>>>>>> coordinate when, >>>>>>>>>>>>> channel "voice", and following standard ASF COC guidelines, etc... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps Bits and/or a PMC member could take on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility of building out the guidance on how to run this >>>>>>>>>>>>> without too >>>>>>>>>>>>> much overlap or interference as it scales out. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonathan Leang >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue >>>>>>>>>>> Databricks >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ryan Blue >>>>>>> Databricks >>>>>>> >>>>>> >> >> -- >> Ryan Blue >> Databricks >> > -- Ryan Blue Databricks
