Hi Jack, I don't think we are ready for a vote already: the document has still comments to be discussed imho. I would give more time to everyone to take a look.
Generally speaking, if I understand the overall idea, I see a lot of content similar to the ASF resources (so maybe just referencing the ASF resources/links would be enough). Also, I think we should emphasize the problem statement, because it could be hard to see the values of some document proposals. My $0.01 :) Regards JB On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 4:01 PM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Thanks for all the comments and feedback on the document, I am working with a > few commenters on some additional changes and wording, and then will carry > out the vote. > > Best, > Jack Ye > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 11:02 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> To provide an update here, I have consolidated most of the comments in the >> initial version, with the following changes: >> >> (1) condensed the section of roles and responsibilities, with pointers to >> different pages in ASF and existing Iceberg project pages. >> >> (2) clarified voting details, regrading things like partial votes, >> difference of voting on mailing lists vs voting on GitHub PRs >> >> (3) clarified the section regarding lazy consensus. There is a definition >> difference between the ASF definition (no +1 vote needed) vs the ORC >> definition (1 +1 vote). I renamed the ORC version as "minimum consensus" >> instead. >> >> (4) updated "Modify Code" vote type to minimum consensus. This is a bit >> different from ASF definition for code modification, but I think we are >> coming to an agreement that the ASF definition is outdated. Minimum >> consensus seems to make the most sense given the way we operate Iceberg so >> far, which is basically at least 1 committer other than the author needs to >> approve a PR before merging. >> >> (5) updated all decisions regarding committers and PMC members and guideline >> updates to majority approval, following the ASF guideline on voting for >> procedural issues. >> >> Let me know if there is anything else we see major disagreements with, and I >> will organize a vote after 24 hours. >> >> Best, >> Jack Ye >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:04 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> +1 for adding to the site. >>> >>> I am putting it as a doc for now since Google doc is easier to comment (I >>> think?). My plan is to: >>> >>> (1) publish it as a PR after a vote has passed. We can do one more sanity >>> check in the PR, but the information will be exactly as it is presented in >>> the Google doc, maybe adding some additional links to more easily jump >>> among the sections or to other pages in the site, fix some grammar issues >>> that were overlooked. >>> >>> (2) keep a changelog within the document itself. Because we have moved the >>> site multiple times in the past, I am not really confident that we could >>> just track history with Git commit history, especially with such an >>> important document. I would like to add a changelog section in the end, >>> documenting what change has been approved when, with links to devlist >>> discussions and votes. >>> >>> For how we tackle the other topics, my plan is to pass the initial version >>> first, and then we just go through all the identified topics one by one. I >>> have a list of all topics in the original feedback collection devlist >>> thread. >>> >>> Let me know what you think about these plans! >>> >>> Best, >>> Jack Ye >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:04 AM Ryan Blue <b...@databricks.com.invalid> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 for adding this to the site once we agree on the changes. >>>> >>>> One thing that has been raised several times but hasn't yet been addressed >>>> is how we want to tackle this. Many of us have asked to review the >>>> additional bylaws individually and discuss the purpose and merits of each >>>> one. It's great to have an overall doc (much like our integrated PRs to >>>> give context) but I think we should start having separate discussions >>>> about the rationale for each bylaw to make progress. >>>> >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 8:57 AM Micah Kornfield <emkornfi...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Jack, >>>>> I think it would make sense to convert this to a PR, so it can be version >>>>> tracked in the future (and that way it avoids another review if the >>>>> intent is to transitition github)? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Micah >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 9:07 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the feedback in the bylaws document discussion thread! As >>>>>> suggested, I have removed all the topics that require further debates, >>>>>> and created this new doc to serve as the initial version that we can >>>>>> review and later vote. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S3igb5NqSlYE3dq_qRsP3X2gwhe54fx-Sxq5hqyOe6I/edit >>>>>> >>>>>> I will organize new devlist threads to discuss other topics to amend the >>>>>> guidelines step by step, once this initial version is in. >>>>>> >>>>>> A few additional changes that I have already incorporated: >>>>>> 1. modified the name from "bylaws" to "community guidelines", following >>>>>> the latest ASF guideline >>>>>> 2. renamed "lazy majority" and "lazy 2/3 majority" to "majority >>>>>> approval" and "2/3 majority approval" >>>>>> 3. changed "Propose Removing Committer", "Propose Removing PMC Member" >>>>>> to consensus approval, and added "Propose PMC Chair Change" decision >>>>>> following the default Apache project community guidelines. >>>>>> 4. changed "Release Product" voting period to 5 days instead of 3 days >>>>>> excluding weekends. >>>>>> 5. clarified the copyright of code in Apache Iceberg codebases >>>>>> >>>>>> The most important thing is probably to agree upon the 2/3 majority >>>>>> approval for modifying the project guidelines, so we can have a >>>>>> consistent voting method going forward. This initial introduction of the >>>>>> bylaws will be voted using consensus approval. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please take a look and comment about any additional changes needed, and >>>>>> I will host a vote in 3 days. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Jack Ye >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ryan Blue >>>> Databricks
