Hi everyone, continued support for Java 8 can also create project risks, e.g. if a vulnerability arises in Flink's dependencies and we cannot upgrade them because they no longer support Java 8. Some projects already started deprecating support as well, like Kafka, and other projects will likely follow. Let's also keep in mind that the proposal here is not to drop support right away, but to deprecate it, send the message, and motivate users to start migrating. Delaying this process could ironically mean users have less time to prepare for it.
Ingo On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 8:54 AM Matthias Pohl <matth...@ververica.com> wrote: > Thanks for constantly driving these maintenance topics, Chesnay. +1 from my > side for deprecating Java 8. I see the point Jingsong is raising. But I > agree with what David already said here. Deprecating the Java version is a > tool to make users aware of it (same as starting this discussion thread). > If there's no major opposition against deprecating it in the community we > should move forward in this regard to make the users who do not > regularly browse the mailing list aware of it. That said, deprecating Java > 8 in 1.15 does not necessarily mean that it is dropped in 1.16. > > Best, > Matthias > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 8:46 AM David Morávek <d...@apache.org> wrote: > > > Thank you Chesnay for starting the discussion! This will generate bit of > a > > work for some users, but it's a good thing to keep moving the project > > forward. Big +1 for this. > > > > Jingsong: > > > > Receiving this signal, the user may be unhappy because his application > > > may be all on Java 8. Upgrading is a big job, after all, many systems > > > have not been upgraded yet. (Like you said, HBase and Hive) > > > > > > > The whole point of deprecation is to raise awareness, that this will be > > happening eventually and users should take some steps to address this in > > medium-term. If I understand Chesnay correctly, we'd still keep Java 8 > > around for quite some time to give users enough time to upgrade, but > > without raising awareness we'd fight the very same argument later in > time. > > > > All of the prerequisites from 3rd party projects for both HBase [1] and > > Hive [2] to fully support Java 11 have been completed, so the ball is on > > their side and there doesn't seem to be much activity. Generating bit > more > > pressure on these efforts might be a good thing. > > > > It would be great to identify some of these users and learn bit more > about > > their situation. Are they keeping up with latest Flink developments or > are > > they lagging behind (this would also give them way more time for eventual > > upgrade)? > > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-22972 > > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HIVE-22415 > > > > Best, > > D. > > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 3:08 AM Jingsong Li <jingsongl...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Chesnay, > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this for discussion. > > > > > > We should dig deeper into the current Java version of Flink users. At > > > least make sure Java 8 is not a mainstream version. > > > > > > Receiving this signal, the user may be unhappy because his application > > > may be all on Java 8. Upgrading is a big job, after all, many systems > > > have not been upgraded yet. (Like you said, HBase and Hive) > > > > > > In my opinion, it is too early to deprecate support for Java 8. We > > > should wait for a safer point in time. > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 11:45 PM Ingo Bürk <i...@ververica.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > also a +1 from me because of everything Chesnay already said. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ingo > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 4:41 PM Martijn Visser < > mart...@ververica.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Chesnay, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up for discussion. Big +1 for dropping > Java > > 8 > > > and > > > > > deprecating it in 1.15, given that Java 8 support will end. We > > already > > > see > > > > > other dependencies that Flink use either have dropped support for > > Java > > > 8 > > > > > (Trino) or are going to drop it (Kafka). > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Martijn > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 16:28, Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > As with any Java version there comes a time when one needs to ask > > > > > > themselves for how long one intends to stick with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > With Java 17 being released 2 months ago, and the active support > > for > > > > > > Java 8 ending in 4 months, it is time for us to think about that > > with > > > > > > regard to Java 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > As such I'd like to start a discussion about deprecating support > > for > > > > > > Java 8 in 1.15. > > > > > > We do not need to arrive with an exact date for the removal in > this > > > > > > discussion; the main goal is to signal to users that they should > > > > > > (prepare to) migrate to Java 11 _now_. > > > > > > That said, we should consider dropping the support entirely in > the > > > next > > > > > > 2-3 releases. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are of course some problems that we are already aware of, > > like > > > the > > > > > > Hive/Hbase connectors that currently do not support Java 11. > > > > > > However, we mustn't hold back the entire project because of > > external > > > > > > projects that are (way to) slow to adapt. > > > > > > Maybe us deprecating Java 8 would also add a bit of pressure to > get > > > on > > > > > > with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are numerous advantages that properly migrating to Java 11 > > > would > > > > > > bring us (simplify build system, easier support for Java 17, all > > the > > > API > > > > > > goodies of Java 9-11, new garbage collectors > > > (Epsilon/ZGC/Shenandoah)). > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know what you think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Best, Jingsong Lee > > > >
