+1 for the proposal. Cheers, Till
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 12:43 PM Dian Fu <dian0511...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Dawid, > > Thanks for the reply. Counting all the votes from non apache addresses as > non-binding makes sense. Just as Jark mentioned, we can always remind the > committer/PMC to vote again to use the apache address if necessary (i.e. > when the number of binding votes is not enough). > > Thanks, > Dian > > > 在 2019年12月4日，下午7:27，Kurt Young <k...@apache.org> 写道： > > > > +1 (from my apache email ;-)) > > > > Best, > > Kurt > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 7:22 PM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> I'm +1 on this proposal. > >> > >> Regarding to the case that Dian mentioned, we can reminder the > >> committer/PMC to vote again use the apache email, > >> and of course the non-apache vote is counted as non-binding. > >> > >> Best, > >> Jark > >> > >> On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Dawid Wysakowicz <dwysakow...@apache.org> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Dian, > >>> > >>> I don't want to be very strict, but I think it should be counted as > >>> non-binding, if it comes from non apache address, yes. > >>> > >>> Anybody should be able to verify a vote. Moreover I think this the only > >>> way to "encourage" all committers to use their apache addresses ;) > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Dawid > >>> > >>> On 04/12/2019 10:26, Dian Fu wrote: > >>>> Thanks for your explanation Dawid! It makes sense to me now. +1. > >>>> > >>>> Just one minor question: Does this mean that if a committer/PMC > >>> accidentally votes using the non apache email, even if the person who > >>> summarizes the votes clearly KNOWS who he/she is, that vote will still > be > >>> counted as non-binding? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Dian > >>>> > >>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，下午5:13，Aljoscha Krettek <aljos...@apache.org> 写道： > >>>>> > >>>>> Very sensible! +1 > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 4. Dec 2019, at 10:02, Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> > >> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I believe this to be a sensible approach by Dawid; +1. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 04/12/2019 09:04, Dawid Wysakowicz wrote: > >>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me > >>> first clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial > >> suggestion. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 1. I do not want to count all votes from @apache.org addresses as > >>> binding > >>>>>>> 2. I do not want to discourage people that do not have @apache.org > >>>>>>> address from voting > >>>>>>> 3. What I said does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMCs > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an > >>> apache.org address because then the person that summarizes the votes > can > >>> check in the apache directory if a person with that address is a > >>> committer/PMC in flink project. Otherwise if a committer uses a > different > >>> address there is no way to check if that person is a committer/PMC or > >> not. > >>> It does not mean though that if you vote from apache.org this vote is > >>> automatically binding. It just allows us to check if it is. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to > use > >>> an apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a committer > >> or > >>> not. But take me (or any other committer) for example. If I use my > >>> non-apache address for a vote and the person verifying the vote does > not > >>> know me and my address, it is not easy for that person to verify if I > am > >> a > >>> committer or not. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. > You > >>> can vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as > >>> non-binding. This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC. > >>> However if you are a committer and vote from non apache address your > vote > >>> will be non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a > committer > >>> (we might don't know your other address). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote > >>> helps, but it still should be verified. People make mistakes. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I hope this clears it up a bit. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Dawid > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote: > >>>>>>>> Thanks Dawid for start this discussion. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, > >>> according to the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from > >>> active PMC members are binding, such as product release. So an email > >>> address doesn't help here. Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it > >> is > >>> still non-binding. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>> Dian > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee<lzljs3620...@apache.org> 写道： > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint. > >>>>>>>>> I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email > >>> address to > >>>>>>>>> send email. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain > >>> "binding". > >>>>>>>>> Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket. > >>>>>>>>> In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any > >>> suffix too. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>>> Jingsong Lee > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z<usxu...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Dawid, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem > >> you > >>>>>>>>>> described, but the solution might not work as having an > >> apache.org > >>> email > >>>>>>>>>> address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This > >>> certainly > >>>>>>>>>> applies to me. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by > >>> specifying > >>>>>>>>>> either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this > >> cannot > >>> be > >>>>>>>>>> enforced but serves a general guideline. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>> Xuefu > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz< > >>> dwysakow...@apache.org> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I > >> think > >>>>>>>>>>> whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release > >>> candidate > >>>>>>>>>>> or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email > >>> address. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a > >>> committer/PMC if > >>>>>>>>>>> we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important > >>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> verifying if a vote is binding or not. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Dawid > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> Xuefu Zhang > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> "In Honey We Trust!" > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee > >>>>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >
