Hi Dian, I don't want to be very strict, but I think it should be counted as non-binding, if it comes from non apache address, yes.
Anybody should be able to verify a vote. Moreover I think this the only way to "encourage" all committers to use their apache addresses ;) Best, Dawid On 04/12/2019 10:26, Dian Fu wrote: > Thanks for your explanation Dawid! It makes sense to me now. +1. > > Just one minor question: Does this mean that if a committer/PMC accidentally > votes using the non apache email, even if the person who summarizes the votes > clearly KNOWS who he/she is, that vote will still be counted as non-binding? > > Regards, > Dian > >> 在 2019年12月4日，下午5:13，Aljoscha Krettek <aljos...@apache.org> 写道： >> >> Very sensible! +1 >> >>> On 4. Dec 2019, at 10:02, Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>> I believe this to be a sensible approach by Dawid; +1. >>> >>> On 04/12/2019 09:04, Dawid Wysakowicz wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me first >>>> clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial suggestion. >>>> >>>> 1. I do not want to count all votes from @apache.org addresses as binding >>>> 2. I do not want to discourage people that do not have @apache.org >>>> address from voting >>>> 3. What I said does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMCs >>>> >>>> What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an apache.org >>>> address because then the person that summarizes the votes can check in the >>>> apache directory if a person with that address is a committer/PMC in flink >>>> project. Otherwise if a committer uses a different address there is no way >>>> to check if that person is a committer/PMC or not. It does not mean though >>>> that if you vote from apache.org this vote is automatically binding. It >>>> just allows us to check if it is. >>>> >>>> To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to use an >>>> apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a committer or >>>> not. But take me (or any other committer) for example. If I use my >>>> non-apache address for a vote and the person verifying the vote does not >>>> know me and my address, it is not easy for that person to verify if I am a >>>> committer or not. >>>> >>>> Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. You can >>>> vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as non-binding. >>>> This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC. However if you >>>> are a committer and vote from non apache address your vote will be >>>> non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a committer (we might >>>> don't know your other address). >>>> >>>> I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote helps, >>>> but it still should be verified. People make mistakes. >>>> >>>> I hope this clears it up a bit. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Dawid >>>> >>>> On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote: >>>>> Thanks Dawid for start this discussion. >>>>> >>>>> I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, according >>>>> to the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from active PMC >>>>> members are binding, such as product release. So an email address doesn't >>>>> help here. Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it is still >>>>> non-binding. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Dian >>>>> >>>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee<lzljs3620...@apache.org> 写道： >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint. >>>>>> I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email address to >>>>>> send email. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain >>>>>> "binding". >>>>>> Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket. >>>>>> In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any suffix >>>>>> too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Jingsong Lee >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z<usxu...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Dawid, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem you >>>>>>> described, but the solution might not work as having an apache.org email >>>>>>> address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This >>>>>>> certainly >>>>>>> applies to me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by specifying >>>>>>> either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this cannot be >>>>>>> enforced but serves a general guideline. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Xuefu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz<dwysakow...@apache.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I think >>>>>>>> whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release candidate >>>>>>>> or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email address. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a committer/PMC >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important for >>>>>>>> verifying if a vote is binding or not. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dawid >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Xuefu Zhang >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "In Honey We Trust!" >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee >>>
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