Hi Dawid, Thanks for the reply. Counting all the votes from non apache addresses as non-binding makes sense. Just as Jark mentioned, we can always remind the committer/PMC to vote again to use the apache address if necessary (i.e. when the number of binding votes is not enough).
Thanks, Dian > 在 2019年12月4日，下午7:27，Kurt Young <k...@apache.org> 写道： > > +1 (from my apache email ;-)) > > Best, > Kurt > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 7:22 PM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm +1 on this proposal. >> >> Regarding to the case that Dian mentioned, we can reminder the >> committer/PMC to vote again use the apache email, >> and of course the non-apache vote is counted as non-binding. >> >> Best, >> Jark >> >> On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Dawid Wysakowicz <dwysakow...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Dian, >>> >>> I don't want to be very strict, but I think it should be counted as >>> non-binding, if it comes from non apache address, yes. >>> >>> Anybody should be able to verify a vote. Moreover I think this the only >>> way to "encourage" all committers to use their apache addresses ;) >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dawid >>> >>> On 04/12/2019 10:26, Dian Fu wrote: >>>> Thanks for your explanation Dawid! It makes sense to me now. +1. >>>> >>>> Just one minor question: Does this mean that if a committer/PMC >>> accidentally votes using the non apache email, even if the person who >>> summarizes the votes clearly KNOWS who he/she is, that vote will still be >>> counted as non-binding? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Dian >>>> >>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，下午5:13，Aljoscha Krettek <aljos...@apache.org> 写道： >>>>> >>>>> Very sensible! +1 >>>>> >>>>>> On 4. Dec 2019, at 10:02, Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> >> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe this to be a sensible approach by Dawid; +1. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 04/12/2019 09:04, Dawid Wysakowicz wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me >>> first clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial >> suggestion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. I do not want to count all votes from @apache.org addresses as >>> binding >>>>>>> 2. I do not want to discourage people that do not have @apache.org >>>>>>> address from voting >>>>>>> 3. What I said does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMCs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an >>> apache.org address because then the person that summarizes the votes can >>> check in the apache directory if a person with that address is a >>> committer/PMC in flink project. Otherwise if a committer uses a different >>> address there is no way to check if that person is a committer/PMC or >> not. >>> It does not mean though that if you vote from apache.org this vote is >>> automatically binding. It just allows us to check if it is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to use >>> an apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a committer >> or >>> not. But take me (or any other committer) for example. If I use my >>> non-apache address for a vote and the person verifying the vote does not >>> know me and my address, it is not easy for that person to verify if I am >> a >>> committer or not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. You >>> can vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as >>> non-binding. This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC. >>> However if you are a committer and vote from non apache address your vote >>> will be non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a committer >>> (we might don't know your other address). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote >>> helps, but it still should be verified. People make mistakes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope this clears it up a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dawid >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote: >>>>>>>> Thanks Dawid for start this discussion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, >>> according to the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from >>> active PMC members are binding, such as product release. So an email >>> address doesn't help here. Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it >> is >>> still non-binding. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Dian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee<lzljs3620...@apache.org> 写道： >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint. >>>>>>>>> I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email >>> address to >>>>>>>>> send email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain >>> "binding". >>>>>>>>> Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket. >>>>>>>>> In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any >>> suffix too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Jingsong Lee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z<usxu...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Dawid, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem >> you >>>>>>>>>> described, but the solution might not work as having an >> apache.org >>> email >>>>>>>>>> address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This >>> certainly >>>>>>>>>> applies to me. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by >>> specifying >>>>>>>>>> either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this >> cannot >>> be >>>>>>>>>> enforced but serves a general guideline. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Xuefu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz< >>> dwysakow...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I >> think >>>>>>>>>>> whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release >>> candidate >>>>>>>>>>> or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email >>> address. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a >>> committer/PMC if >>>>>>>>>>> we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important >>> for >>>>>>>>>>> verifying if a vote is binding or not. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dawid >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Xuefu Zhang >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "In Honey We Trust!" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee >>>>>> >>> >>> >>
