+1 for keeping the Quickstart on the main page but I'm against removing it from the documentation because it is, essentially, a part of the documentation.
On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org> wrote: > Good point. > > How often does "Quickstart" change? Seems to be fairly stable. Maybe we > could move it from doc page to main page? > > Btw: The link "Flink on Windows" is broken in the Quickstart guide. > > -Matthias > > On 10/28/2015 02:09 PM, Aljoscha Krettek wrote: >> I think the quickstarts should be very easy to discover, so we should keep >> them on the main page. If you just browse to flink.apache.org you would not >> be aware that they exist. >>> On 28 Oct 2015, at 13:37, Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>> What about "Quickstart" menu point... I really would like to move it >>> under "Documentation" (to get rid of linking to the doc page on two >>> places...) >>> >>> Furthermore, I would suggest to rename "Overview" to "Home" on main page >>> and keep "Overview" on doc page. >>> >>> Logo/Text: I am fine with a text-link (but would remove the logo link -- >>> there is no advantage in having it) >>> >>> If there are no strict objections, I will just update my branch >>> accordingly, such that everybody can try it out. After that, we can try >>> to come to a conclusion. >>> >>> I guess, together with the darker color schema on the doc page menu, the >>> distinction between both pages should become clear. >>> >>> -Matthias >>> >>> On 10/28/2015 11:19 AM, Fabian Hueske wrote: >>>> I agree with Max. >>>> Renaming Overview in Documentation and adding a clear link back to the >>>> project website are the most important issues, IMO. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2015-10-28 10:59 GMT+01:00 Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org>: >>>> >>>>> We should be careful not to break links to the docs again. I'm in >>>>> favor of making it more clear what is the Flink web site and what its >>>>> documentation is. For me, it would be enough to change "Overview 1.0" >>>>> to "Documentation 1.0" and have a clear link which says "Back to Flink >>>>> website". That should do it. >>>>> >>>>> In the light of the release, all other changes are not that important >>>>> to me right now but I wouldn't deny the structure of the documentation >>>>> can be improved. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Fabian Hueske <fhue...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree, two Overview links pointing to different locations should be >>>>>> changed. >>>>>> I am not so sure about the Logo issue. IMO, there should be always a text >>>>>> link. The logo link should only be an addition. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe we should wait for more opinions, before we continue. >>>>>> The website has been changed a couple of times, so it would be good to >>>>> get >>>>>> input from those who built the current website, IMO. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2015-10-28 9:56 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, but I think that the "Overview" link to index.html is >>>>>>> confusing/wrong. The doc web page has "Overview" too, and it points to >>>>>>> https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/index.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There should be only one page with name "Overview" (either on the web >>>>>>> page or on the doc page). I actually thought, that the "Overview" link >>>>>>> from the main page should point to the documentation overview and is >>>>>>> currently just wrong? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last but not least, using the Logo and an additional "Overview" menu >>>>>>> point both pointing to the same location is redundant. I would just go >>>>>>> with the logo as a link (or if an explicit menu point is used, disable >>>>>>> the logo as a link -- too me, it is always confusing it two links next >>>>>>> to each other do the same thing). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Matthias >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/27/2015 11:56 PM, Fabian Hueske wrote: >>>>>>>> I agree that it is confusing that the documentation is linked more >>>>> than >>>>>>>> once from the project website menu. It is not clear when you enter >>>>> the >>>>>>>> documentation section and how to get back. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However, the "Overview" menu entry on the project website does not >>>>> point >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the documentation but to http://flink.apache.org/index.html. Hence, >>>>> it >>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> stay in the menu and should not be moved under Documentation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would also add a dedicated "Project Website" link to the >>>>> Documentation >>>>>>>> menu in addition to the link on the logo. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2015-10-27 20:39 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the input Fabian! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was actually referring to the main page regarding changes of the >>>>> menu >>>>>>>>> structure. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Currently, the layout is: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> FlinkLogo | Overview | Quickstart | Features | Download | >>>>>>>>> Documentation | FAQ || Blog | Community | Project >>>>>>>>>> (-> index.html) (-> doc page) (-> doc page) >>>>> (-> >>>>>>>>> doc page) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would change it to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> FlinkLogo | Features | Download | Documentation | FAQ || >>>>> Blog | >>>>>>>>> Community | Project >>>>>>>>>> (-> index.html) (-> doc page) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> With Documentation: >>>>>>>>> - Overview >>>>>>>>> - Quickstart (Setup) >>>>>>>>> - Latest Release (Doc, JavaDoc, ScalaDoc) >>>>>>>>> - Snapshot (Doc, JavaDoc, ScalaDoc) >>>>>>>>> - Wiki >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This give the advantage, that only a single menu points to the doc >>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the doc page, I would keep the Flink logo that points back to the >>>>>>>>> main web page. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> FlinkLogo | Overview | Quickstart | Setup | Programming Guides | >>>>>>>>> Libraries | Internals >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We could split "Programming Guides" into "DataSet API" and >>>>> "DataStream >>>>>>>>> API". The question is about all the other menu point of "Programming >>>>>>>>> Guides". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Where to move "Best Practice", "Examples", "Local Execution", >>>>> "Cluster >>>>>>>>> Execution", "Command Line Interface", "Web Client", and "Java 8" ?? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> => "Python", "Interactive Scale Shell", "Connectors", "Iterations", >>>>>>>>> "Hadoop" could go to "DataSet API" >>>>>>>>> => "Storm" could go to "DataStream API" >>>>>>>>> => as an alternative, "Pyhton", "Hadoop", and "Storm" could go to >>>>>>>>> "Libraries" too >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Matthias >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/27/2015 11:42 AM, Fabian Hueske wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Matthias, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> thanks for taking care of this issue. >>>>>>>>>> How about we change the menu completely, i.e., have menue entries >>>>> for: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - Project Website >>>>>>>>>> - Setup >>>>>>>>>> - Local >>>>>>>>>> - Cluster >>>>>>>>>> - Yarn >>>>>>>>>> - DataSet API >>>>>>>>>> - Programming guide >>>>>>>>>> - transformations >>>>>>>>>> - DataStream API >>>>>>>>>> - Programming Guide >>>>>>>>>> - Internals >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is not a complete list, just what came to my mind right now. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Fabian >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2015-10-27 3:39 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I started to work on this. Please see here: >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mjsax/flink/tree/flink-2752-webpage >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Basically, I just changed the color schema of the menu. I also >>>>> remove >>>>>>>>>>> "How to Contribute" and "Coding Guidelines" from "Internals". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To get an even better separation, I would like to change the menu >>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> the main web page, too. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - At least we should change the link of "Overview" which is not >>>>>>> useful >>>>>>>>>>> at all, right now (is it broken or intentionally?) >>>>>>>>>>> - I would also move "Quickstart" as sub-menu point of >>>>> "Documentation" >>>>>>>>>>> - maybe we could move "Overview" as sub-menu point of >>>>>>> "Documentation", >>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From my point of view, having a different menu structure and color >>>>>>>>>>> should be good enough to make the distinction of both pages clear. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Btw: the link "setup guide" in *Getting Started* section at the >>>>> main >>>>>>>>>>> page is broken... I would fix this together with those changes (if >>>>>>>>>>> accepted). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please give feedback. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -Matthias >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2015 10:40 AM, Maximilian Michels wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Matthias for pointing this out. I opened an issue some >>>>> time >>>>>>> ago >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> a similar description: >>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-2752 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Fabian and Ufuk that it makes sense to separate the >>>>>>>>> website >>>>>>>>>>>> and the source repository. However, the distinction between the >>>>>>>>>>>> documentation and the homepage should be more clear. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Ufuk Celebi <u...@apache.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2015, at 10:27, Fabian Hueske <fhue...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The website consists of two parts which are maintained in two >>>>>>>>> separate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> respositories: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) The project website about features, community, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) The documentation of the project >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have the separation because we want to be able to update >>>>> source >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation in one repository to avoid that the documentation >>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sync. The documentation is built every night and hosted at >>>>>>>>>>> ci.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> achieve that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO, this separation makes sense, because the project website >>>>> is >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed very often whereas the documentation should be touched >>>>>>>>> whenever >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> API or behavior is changed. I think it is very important to >>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation in sync with the code. In fact, I believe both >>>>> parts >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> website should not be related to each other, so they shouldn't >>>>> be a >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have both parts getting out-of-sync, except for layout / design >>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice to have but not crucial. We might even think about >>>>> changing >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> color-scheme of the documentation to make the difference more >>>>>>> clear. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, Max pointed this out in the beginning. Let’s change the >>>>>>>>>>> colors/design >>>>>>>>>>>>> to make the distinction clear. The confusion comes from the fact >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> look similar. It only makes sense to assume that they are >>>>> hosted on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same web server etc. But as Fabian said, there are good reasons >>>>>>>>> against >>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> – Ufuk >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
