Good point. How often does "Quickstart" change? Seems to be fairly stable. Maybe we could move it from doc page to main page?
Btw: The link "Flink on Windows" is broken in the Quickstart guide. -Matthias On 10/28/2015 02:09 PM, Aljoscha Krettek wrote: > I think the quickstarts should be very easy to discover, so we should keep > them on the main page. If you just browse to flink.apache.org you would not > be aware that they exist. >> On 28 Oct 2015, at 13:37, Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> What about "Quickstart" menu point... I really would like to move it >> under "Documentation" (to get rid of linking to the doc page on two >> places...) >> >> Furthermore, I would suggest to rename "Overview" to "Home" on main page >> and keep "Overview" on doc page. >> >> Logo/Text: I am fine with a text-link (but would remove the logo link -- >> there is no advantage in having it) >> >> If there are no strict objections, I will just update my branch >> accordingly, such that everybody can try it out. After that, we can try >> to come to a conclusion. >> >> I guess, together with the darker color schema on the doc page menu, the >> distinction between both pages should become clear. >> >> -Matthias >> >> On 10/28/2015 11:19 AM, Fabian Hueske wrote: >>> I agree with Max. >>> Renaming Overview in Documentation and adding a clear link back to the >>> project website are the most important issues, IMO. >>> >>> >>> 2015-10-28 10:59 GMT+01:00 Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org>: >>> >>>> We should be careful not to break links to the docs again. I'm in >>>> favor of making it more clear what is the Flink web site and what its >>>> documentation is. For me, it would be enough to change "Overview 1.0" >>>> to "Documentation 1.0" and have a clear link which says "Back to Flink >>>> website". That should do it. >>>> >>>> In the light of the release, all other changes are not that important >>>> to me right now but I wouldn't deny the structure of the documentation >>>> can be improved. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Fabian Hueske <fhue...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I agree, two Overview links pointing to different locations should be >>>>> changed. >>>>> I am not so sure about the Logo issue. IMO, there should be always a text >>>>> link. The logo link should only be an addition. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe we should wait for more opinions, before we continue. >>>>> The website has been changed a couple of times, so it would be good to >>>> get >>>>> input from those who built the current website, IMO. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2015-10-28 9:56 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org>: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, but I think that the "Overview" link to index.html is >>>>>> confusing/wrong. The doc web page has "Overview" too, and it points to >>>>>> https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> There should be only one page with name "Overview" (either on the web >>>>>> page or on the doc page). I actually thought, that the "Overview" link >>>>>> from the main page should point to the documentation overview and is >>>>>> currently just wrong? >>>>>> >>>>>> Last but not least, using the Logo and an additional "Overview" menu >>>>>> point both pointing to the same location is redundant. I would just go >>>>>> with the logo as a link (or if an explicit menu point is used, disable >>>>>> the logo as a link -- too me, it is always confusing it two links next >>>>>> to each other do the same thing). >>>>>> >>>>>> -Matthias >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/27/2015 11:56 PM, Fabian Hueske wrote: >>>>>>> I agree that it is confusing that the documentation is linked more >>>> than >>>>>>> once from the project website menu. It is not clear when you enter >>>> the >>>>>>> documentation section and how to get back. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, the "Overview" menu entry on the project website does not >>>> point >>>>>> to >>>>>>> the documentation but to http://flink.apache.org/index.html. Hence, >>>> it >>>>>> can >>>>>>> stay in the menu and should not be moved under Documentation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would also add a dedicated "Project Website" link to the >>>> Documentation >>>>>>> menu in addition to the link on the logo. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2015-10-27 20:39 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the input Fabian! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was actually referring to the main page regarding changes of the >>>> menu >>>>>>>> structure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Currently, the layout is: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> FlinkLogo | Overview | Quickstart | Features | Download | >>>>>>>> Documentation | FAQ || Blog | Community | Project >>>>>>>>> (-> index.html) (-> doc page) (-> doc page) >>>> (-> >>>>>>>> doc page) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would change it to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> FlinkLogo | Features | Download | Documentation | FAQ || >>>> Blog | >>>>>>>> Community | Project >>>>>>>>> (-> index.html) (-> doc page) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With Documentation: >>>>>>>> - Overview >>>>>>>> - Quickstart (Setup) >>>>>>>> - Latest Release (Doc, JavaDoc, ScalaDoc) >>>>>>>> - Snapshot (Doc, JavaDoc, ScalaDoc) >>>>>>>> - Wiki >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This give the advantage, that only a single menu points to the doc >>>> page. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the doc page, I would keep the Flink logo that points back to the >>>>>>>> main web page. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> FlinkLogo | Overview | Quickstart | Setup | Programming Guides | >>>>>>>> Libraries | Internals >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We could split "Programming Guides" into "DataSet API" and >>>> "DataStream >>>>>>>> API". The question is about all the other menu point of "Programming >>>>>>>> Guides". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Where to move "Best Practice", "Examples", "Local Execution", >>>> "Cluster >>>>>>>> Execution", "Command Line Interface", "Web Client", and "Java 8" ?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> => "Python", "Interactive Scale Shell", "Connectors", "Iterations", >>>>>>>> "Hadoop" could go to "DataSet API" >>>>>>>> => "Storm" could go to "DataStream API" >>>>>>>> => as an alternative, "Pyhton", "Hadoop", and "Storm" could go to >>>>>>>> "Libraries" too >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Matthias >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/27/2015 11:42 AM, Fabian Hueske wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Matthias, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> thanks for taking care of this issue. >>>>>>>>> How about we change the menu completely, i.e., have menue entries >>>> for: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Project Website >>>>>>>>> - Setup >>>>>>>>> - Local >>>>>>>>> - Cluster >>>>>>>>> - Yarn >>>>>>>>> - DataSet API >>>>>>>>> - Programming guide >>>>>>>>> - transformations >>>>>>>>> - DataStream API >>>>>>>>> - Programming Guide >>>>>>>>> - Internals >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is not a complete list, just what came to my mind right now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Fabian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2015-10-27 3:39 GMT+01:00 Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I started to work on this. Please see here: >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mjsax/flink/tree/flink-2752-webpage >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Basically, I just changed the color schema of the menu. I also >>>> remove >>>>>>>>>> "How to Contribute" and "Coding Guidelines" from "Internals". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To get an even better separation, I would like to change the menu >>>> from >>>>>>>>>> the main web page, too. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - At least we should change the link of "Overview" which is not >>>>>> useful >>>>>>>>>> at all, right now (is it broken or intentionally?) >>>>>>>>>> - I would also move "Quickstart" as sub-menu point of >>>> "Documentation" >>>>>>>>>> - maybe we could move "Overview" as sub-menu point of >>>>>> "Documentation", >>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From my point of view, having a different menu structure and color >>>>>>>>>> should be good enough to make the distinction of both pages clear. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Btw: the link "setup guide" in *Getting Started* section at the >>>> main >>>>>>>>>> page is broken... I would fix this together with those changes (if >>>>>>>>>> accepted). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please give feedback. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -Matthias >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2015 10:40 AM, Maximilian Michels wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Matthias for pointing this out. I opened an issue some >>>> time >>>>>> ago >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> a similar description: >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-2752 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Fabian and Ufuk that it makes sense to separate the >>>>>>>> website >>>>>>>>>>> and the source repository. However, the distinction between the >>>>>>>>>>> documentation and the homepage should be more clear. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Ufuk Celebi <u...@apache.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2015, at 10:27, Fabian Hueske <fhue...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The website consists of two parts which are maintained in two >>>>>>>> separate >>>>>>>>>>>>> respositories: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) The project website about features, community, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) The documentation of the project >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We have the separation because we want to be able to update >>>> source >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation in one repository to avoid that the documentation >>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> sync. The documentation is built every night and hosted at >>>>>>>>>> ci.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> achieve that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO, this separation makes sense, because the project website >>>> is >>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>> changed very often whereas the documentation should be touched >>>>>>>> whenever >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> API or behavior is changed. I think it is very important to >>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation in sync with the code. In fact, I believe both >>>> parts >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> website should not be related to each other, so they shouldn't >>>> be a >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> have both parts getting out-of-sync, except for layout / design >>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> nice to have but not crucial. We might even think about >>>> changing >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> color-scheme of the documentation to make the difference more >>>>>> clear. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, Max pointed this out in the beginning. Let’s change the >>>>>>>>>> colors/design >>>>>>>>>>>> to make the distinction clear. The confusion comes from the fact >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> look similar. It only makes sense to assume that they are >>>> hosted on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same web server etc. But as Fabian said, there are good reasons >>>>>>>> against >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> – Ufuk >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
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