+1 and well said. Jeff
On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:38 AM, Craig Tataryn wrote: > Speaking as a member of the community (non-commiter outside of a few patches) > I don't have a problem with the claims which the CXF supporting companies > make on their own site. They are paying people to forward the development of > CXF, they should get to stick out their chest and let it be known. However, > on the Apache side of things I think its enough to just list a person's > company next to their name/link in the committers page. I don't think we > have to have blurbs about company's products. > > As a community member when a company states they have "the most committers" > on a project, what I interpret from that is "our customer's fixes and needs > get priority over that of the proletariat". I'm sorry if I offend any of the > committers by that, it's just how I think. The fact of the matter is the > "ninja committers" are working on behalf on the product their company is > creating. Of course the good side of this is that CXF matures, even if its > direction is determined a less "open" nature. > > Craig. > > On 2011-02-03, at 9:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote: > >> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and >> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well) >> to earn a living while doing what they love doing. >> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page >> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long >> as it is clearly marked as commercial. >> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I >> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend, >> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC >> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from >> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements >> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done >> consistently. >> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering >> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about >> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their >> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line >> is so they can avoid crossing it. >> >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gma...@talend.com> wrote: >>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the >>> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I >>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support. >>> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive >>> committers alone. >>> >>> Glen >>> >>> >>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote: >>>> >>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable? >>>> >>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective >>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites. >>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting. >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote: >>>> >>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the >>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they >>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose >>>>> support, >>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the >>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce >>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does >>>>> need to be strictly factual. >>>>> >>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife >>>>> between teams. >>>>> >>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which >>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't >>>>> need to be taken seriously. >>>>> >>>>> Glen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many >>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to >>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!' >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting >>>>>> with >>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one >>>>>> "concern" >>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used >>>>>> as >>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products. >>>>>> The >>>>>> guideline I got was: >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------- >>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if >>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be >>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive >>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add >>>>>> links as well). >>>>>> -------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a >>>>>> specific >>>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<conflue...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have >>>>>>>> build >>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing >>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a >>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products >>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only >>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the >>>>>>>> products or services on this page. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> FuseSource >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise >>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and >>>>>>>> ServiceMix >>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best >>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> MuleSoft >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule >>>>>>>> enterprise >>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and >>>>>>>> integration >>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, >>>>>>>> File >>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for >>>>>>>> CXF, >>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA >>>>>>>> based >>>>>>>> on CXF. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Talend >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF >>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features >>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend >>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any >>>>>>>> bugs >>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences >>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Glen Mazza >>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com) >>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Glen Mazza >>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com) >>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Principle Technical Writer >> Phone (781) 280-4174 >> Skype finnmccumial >> E-Mail emjohn...@fusesource.com >> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/ >
