One day the swastika will be an ancient symbol as well.
Let's stick to software? On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:29 PM Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com> wrote: > Arijit, > > > > I agree that the symbol can have many meanings and that it is a modern > > tragedy that symbols with good meanings have been used for evil. > > > > I don't think it implies that any kind of heritage or culture has to be > > lost here. > > > > I would suggest that you consider people who see your emails without your > > explanations. There is thus a significant likelihood of unfortunate > > misunderstanding without your intent. > > > > The situation would be the same if a greeting that includes a blessing in > > one language is an insult in another, second, language. Is it pragmatically > > a good idea to continue to use the greeting if you are meeting with many > > speakers of the second language? You could argue you mean no harm and you > > can argue that the literal meaning of what you say in the language you > > using is beneficent, but you cannot argue that many people will > > misunderstand you and be offended. If that is not your intent, you have > > failed to communicate well. > > > > So it is with symbols that have different meanings in the culture (or > > cultures) you are communicating with. People will misunderstand you. If > > your intent is for them to understand you, then you will not succeed as > > well as you might. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:13 PM, ARIJIT DAS <arijit.mcse...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Please note Swastika is an ancient symbol of Hindus in India...Hitler > used > > > it no way implies that the symbol is improper...If you go through our > Vedas > > > and other mythologies you will find it symbolizes the knowledge and > > > power...and still today danish air force also uses this symbol.India has > > > one of the richest culture and heritage in the world.Many people has used > > > manything of our culture and heritage in many ways for many purpose some > > > are good some are bad.Why will we give up something which symbolizes > > > actually good in our culture? World leaders should learn the lesson from > > > WW2 from Hiroshima Nagasaki from adverse effects of colonization from > > > exploitation of poor.Mere opposing a symbol will add any value to > mankind? > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:30 AM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > +1 for Ted's approach. > > > > > > > > I'm young in terms of ASF years, but I've found it to be very > apolitical. > > > > Recently it's actually been a refreshing departure from what seems like > > > an > > > > avalanche. It seems most people here seem to check their personal > beliefs > > > > at the door. > > > > > > > > My guess is that it is a case of innocence, but a follow up with > > > > information about cultural sensitivities seems prudent. > > > > > > > > -Taylor > > > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As Ted pointed out, it is an ancient symbol found in most Far East > > > > > mythology and the Hindu religion. "Out here" you will find it quite > > > > often, > > > > > on shops, temples and business cards. It doesn't "carry weight" > unless > > > it > > > > > comes in black on white, with the Nazi proportions of widths. The > Nazi > > > > one > > > > > was also at an angle. > > > > > > > > > > We all know that in this instance, there is no malignant intent, and > > > > should > > > > > not require any action. > > > > > > > > > > And we have not had any case of "red and black" and "something needs > to > > > > be > > > > > said" as far as I know. > > > > > > > > > > But the 'solution' is relatively simple; ASF is a non-political > > > > > organization, and expression of political views (such as showing > > > > political > > > > > allegiance, berating political figures, commenting on political > > > activity, > > > > > and so on) is not acceptable, regardless if that is a hate > organization > > > > > like the Nazis or more moderate political statements that many may > > > agree > > > > > with, say recent elections in the world or outbreaks of war. We > should > > > > not > > > > > be involved, I think we are even obliged by Law to not be involved. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Niclas > > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Palumbo <ap....@outlook.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> I am pretty new around here and don't know if this is a more private > > > > room > > > > >> for ASF members .. but my .02: of it is in red and black, then > > > > something > > > > >> needs to be said. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -------- Original message -------- > > > > >> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com> > > > > >> Date: 01/31/2017 3:50 PM (GMT-08:00) > > > > >> To: dev@community.apache.org > > > > >> Subject: Re: Profile photos and ASF values > > > > >> > > > > >> Yeah... I twitched when I saw that. > > > > >> > > > > >> My suspicion is that this is being used in the ancient, pre-nazi > > > sense. > > > > >> > > > > >> It is hard to believe that somebody is ignorant of the impact it > must > > > > have > > > > >> on some readers. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Christopher <ctubb...@apache.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Hi all, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> It is surprising to me that a certain individual participant in ASF > > > > >> forums > > > > >>> seems to be using a swastika as their Google profile photo. The > > > impact > > > > of > > > > >>> this is that ASF users which use GMail to interact with the mailing > > > > >> lists, > > > > >>> are presented with this swastika whenever reading or interacting > with > > > > ASF > > > > >>> forums using GMail. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> To be clear, this symbol can have alternate meanings, and it may > not > > > be > > > > >>> intentionally being used as Nazi symbol. Additionally, even if this > > > > >>> individual holds to certain ideologies which may be antithetical to > > > ASF > > > > >>> community inclusive values, they may act entirely professional and > in > > > > >>> accordance with ASF code of conduct on Apache forums. So, I don't > > > want > > > > to > > > > >>> imply that the profile photo is indicative of their ASF > > > interactions... > > > > >> it > > > > >>> may be an entirely separate thing. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> My main inquiry here is to question whether or not there is a > > > concern, > > > > >>> because the use of such profile photos may actually have > consequences > > > > of > > > > >>> deterring potential new committers, because Apache may be indicted > by > > > > >>> association. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Is there something we wish to do about this? Is it a non-issue? I > > > > really > > > > >>> don't know. All I know, is my gut tells me that I'm bothered when I > > > see > > > > >> it > > > > >>> (I use GMail). But, I don't want to overreact, or start a witch > hunt. > > > > I'm > > > > >>> genuinely curious if this is something we want to address at all. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> If the profile photo is used on ASF infrastructure (JIRA, > affiliated > > > > as a > > > > >>> member of the Apache org on GitHub, etc.), then I think we probably > > > do > > > > >> want > > > > >>> to address it in the Code of Conduct. However, unrelated services > > > like > > > > >>> Google profile photos... that may not be something we want to > > > address, > > > > >>> because the web mail client users use is not related to ASF > services > > > > >> (even > > > > >>> if it were know for user that it impacted ASF community by > deterring > > > > >>> potential new community members). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> In any case, I don't raise this issue to demean the individual > whose > > > > >>> profile photo came to my attention... this is not an attack on > them. > > > > >> Again, > > > > >>> this is not a witch hunt. > > > > >>> -- > > > > >>> Christopher > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer > > > > > http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy for > > > > Java > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > >
